Reconstruction talk:Proto-Germanic/snigilaz
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Soap in topic Split
Split
[edit]I think this needs to be split into two entries: *snigilaz (*sneg- + -ilaz) and *snagilaz (*snag- + -ilaz). There is no way the OE stem vowel could have come from a root of -i-. Leasnam (talk) 18:24, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- I think you're right, although I wonder why there are two different forms. Is there an Old Norse sound law that could somehow change snagi- to snigi-? —CodeCat 18:40, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- Not that I am aware of, no. I think there were two variants in PGmc (from PIE *snek-, *sneg- "to creep, crawl"): *sneg- and *snag-. *sneg- is also featured in *sneg-gô "snail" (> "Schnecke"). *snag- is found in *snag-ilaz and *snag-gô ("gnat", > German "Schnacke"), so both variants seem to have been present. Leasnam (talk) 19:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- Then of course there is yet one other closely related stem: *snak- from which we get "snake". Leasnam (talk) 19:12, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- The puzzle for me is how the alternation between k and g occurred in those related forms. Verner alternation is between voiced and voiceless fricatives, but k is of course a plosive. Is there any evidence outside Germanic for such alternations in Indo-European? Because otherwise, this may actually be a substrate loanword that is confined to Germanic, and of course loanwords would not follow IE patterns. That might also explain the e/a alternation. —CodeCat 20:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, I believe there is: PIE *sneg- is found in Sanskrit nāga "snake"; PIE *snek- is found in Lithuanian snakē "snail, slug, mollusk". Leasnam (talk) 21:42, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- The puzzle for me is how the alternation between k and g occurred in those related forms. Verner alternation is between voiced and voiceless fricatives, but k is of course a plosive. Is there any evidence outside Germanic for such alternations in Indo-European? Because otherwise, this may actually be a substrate loanword that is confined to Germanic, and of course loanwords would not follow IE patterns. That might also explain the e/a alternation. —CodeCat 20:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- Then of course there is yet one other closely related stem: *snak- from which we get "snake". Leasnam (talk) 19:12, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
- Not that I am aware of, no. I think there were two variants in PGmc (from PIE *snek-, *sneg- "to creep, crawl"): *sneg- and *snag-. *sneg- is also featured in *sneg-gô "snail" (> "Schnecke"). *snag- is found in *snag-ilaz and *snag-gô ("gnat", > German "Schnacke"), so both variants seem to have been present. Leasnam (talk) 19:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
irregular reanalysis associated with w:Kluge's Law could explain the consonant alternation. it would have been a root that took a verbal suffix, and then was reanalysed into a standalone noun. —Soap— 22:15, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Also, posibly /kg/ > /gg/ and then renalysis to a stem-final /g/. —Soap— 20:27, 28 December 2021 (UTC)