Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-European/márkos

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I have tried to collect so far the results of my own research. Feel free to use them.

1. https://books.google.com/books?id=VgBtaDT-evYC - page 6: (Mikhailova, Pokorny, Meillet, Gamkrelidze, Ivanov)
  • "According to Pokorny, the word *mark-o- represents a Celto-Germanic isogloss, conserved in these two branches of IE languages “a North-West-IE linguistic community” (Ellis Evans 1981: 241), and a presumed IE root is *marko- (IEW: 700). But Antoine Meillet assumed that this word was an early loanword in Germanic and Celtic from an unknown source (Meillet 1926: 229). This idea was developed by T. Gamkrelidze and V. Ivanov, who had seen in it a borrowing from an Altaic language (or dialect). Indeed, Celto-Germanic *mark- has parallels with Altaic *morV- (Mong. mörin, Kalm. morin ‘horse’; cf. Russ. merin ‘old horse, gelding,’ a late borrowing from Mong., cf. also Chin. ma < *mra, Tamil mā). Gamkrelidze and Ivanov explain this borrowing by early contacts of IE tribes with Altaic tribes. Moreover, they propose that this represents evidence of early migrations of IE tribes from the East to the West through Asia Minor (Гамкрелидзе (Gamkrelidze), Иванов (Ivanov) 1984: 939)."

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2. http://www.turkbilig.com/pdf/201224-179.pdf - page 65: (De la Fuente, Janhunen)
  • "..., with Janhunen who already considered PIE */márkos/ ‘horse, mare’ and “Euroasiatic” */morV/ the result of just chance similarity (see generally Janhunen 2007, 2010),..."
  • "Mallory & Douglas (2006: 141) illustrates that for Indo-Europeanist the option of the Euroasiatic loanword is also well-known. Mikhailova (2007: 4-9) has recently proposed that Celtic mark-os ‘saddle horse’ could be actually of Scythian origin, this being in its own turn an “Altaic” borrowing (everything inserted in a rather naïve Nostratic framework). Unfortunately, the philological argumentation does not exist out of Celtic, and the lack of the most remarkable works on the question should suffice to keep a skeptical position towards Mikhailova’s conclusion."

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3. https://books.google.com/books?id=tzU3RIV2BWIC - EIEC page 274:
  • "Beyond the certain Celtic and Germanic cognates it has been suggested that this putative PIE *márkos is related to a series of words for 'horse' that extend eastward, in non-IE languages, all the way to the Yellow Sea. Thus we have Mongol morin, Chinese mā, Korean mal, Burmese mraŋ. Opinion is divided as to whether, if the PIE word belongs with the others, the PIE word is a borrowing from, say, pre-Mongol (which would also be the source of the Chinese word and that in turn the source of the Korean and Bumese) or the Mongol, Chinese, etc., words are ultimately borrowed from PIE. Under either borrowing scenario *márkos would have had to have been much more widespread in PIE than its Celtic and Germanic reflexes would suggest."
EIEC page 276:
  • "Analysis of horse remains, for example, from Sweden suggests that the domestic horses of Bronze Age here were derived directly from the native horses following the Ice Age and similar claims can be made for early domestic horses in central Europe. Although some have sought distan eastern links for *márkos 'horse', which in Indo-European is confined to the northwest stocks (Celtic and Germanic), it is difficult so see how one can match the western distribution of the IE cognates with the eastern distribution of its putatively non-IE borrowings or loans. The only major east to west movement of horses, after their initial domestication, was in the Iron Age where we have steppe horses which were introduced into the Carpathian basin by the Scythians."

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4. https://ia801601.us.archive.org/14/items/EmpieresOfTheSilkRoad/EmpieresOfTheSilkRoud.pdf - page 397: (Christopher I. Beckwith)
  • "37. The Old Indic chariot warriors of Mitanni — the maryannu (written ma-ri-iaan-nu), from Old Indic márya ‘young warrior’ (plus the Hurrian plural -nnu) — and the Old Indic marut ‘chariot warrior’ are both connected specifically with horses and chariots (EIEC 277). The word for these warriors has a cognate in Old Persian marīka (from Proto- Indo-Iranian *mariyaka) ‘member of a retinue’ (EIEC 630), that is, a band of warriors attached to a lord. “The OInd márya ‘young man’ (cf. Av[estan] mairyo¯ ‘villain, scoundrel’) is employed to describe the wildly aggressive war-band [the Maruts—cib] assembled around the leadership of Indra or Rudra in the Vedas. Although the Indo-Iranian form is usually derived from an e-grade *merio-ھ with cognates in other Indo-European stocks (e.g., Mayrhofer 1986–2000: 329–330), McCone suggests that the underlying form may well be an o-grade (*moriosھ ) with a precise cognate in OIr[ish] muire ‘leader, chief’ ” (EIEC 31). The correspondence of these forms suggests that the ‘young warrior’ words—from the Proto-Indo-European zero-grade root *mr˚ - and the o-grade root *mor of words for ‘to die, death, mortal, youth’, and so on (EIEC 150; Pok. 735: *mer-, *moro-s; Wat. 42: *mer) — are related to the derived word *marko (with the highly productive suffi x *- ko) ‘horse’ (EIEC 274 *márkos; Pok. 700 *marko-; Wat. 38 *marko-), the ancestor of English mare, attested only in Celtic and Germanic *marko ‘horse’, which thus originally meant ‘chariot warrior’s horse’."

Hirabutor (talk) 22:25, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As Krakkos remarks, the sources do not support the outrageous claims made by Hirabutor alias Tirgil34, as usual, and his version was full of original research and original synthesis, the usual dishonest misrepresentation of the sources. Now these quotations actually demonstrate that, cautious as they are and merely mentioning suggestions (if at all) without endorsing them, with the sources distancing themselves from them or even explicitly criticising them! Clearly Tirgil34 has a problem reading or understanding texts. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 00:06, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding your personal attack see here; Source(s) is/are supporting my written text except the part with the "Botai culture" which I had copied from a blog. blog is now deleted. Sources also support other theories, as you should have READ above. Thanks. --Hirabutor (talk) 16:06, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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