Talk:создать

Alternative stress on masculine past - созда́л or со́здал. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:06, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

@Atitarev In my sandbox verb module, I made alternative form arguments be true overrides. Currently they're ignored if the conjugation function specifies a value for the alternative form, which seems wrong. It makes a difference for this verb and certain other related verbs. In this case, past_n2 is supplied by the conjugation function "irreg-дать" as создало́, whereas the invocation for this particular verb specifies an argument |past_n2=со́здало, with a different stress pattern, which is ignored because the conjugation function already provides a value. Which of these two stress patterns is correct, or are both correct (that is, in addition to the form созда́ло, the value of the primary form 'past_n')? Benwing2 (talk) 04:23, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

BTW a similar issue occurs with отдать, продать, задать and подать. Benwing2 (talk) 04:25, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

ruwiki says the override |past_n2=со́здало is correct. Benwing2 (talk) 04:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2 Merry Christmas! Verbs derived from дать are among the odd ones. In the past tense for non-reflexive verbs both stress patterns are acceptable. In the past, only "со́здал", "о́тдал", etc. was the norm for m., n and pl. but these days it's OK to stress the second syllable. For раздать both ро́здал и разда́л are accepted. Pls note the prefix "раз-"/"рас-" changes to "ро́з-"/"ро́с-" when stressed (also with other parts of speech) - it's a cognate of "roz-" in other Slavic languages, it only changed to "raz"- in Russian because of аканье. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:42, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev Merry Christmas to you too! Although it's going to be 76 degrees today (that's around 25 C), hardly winter weather :) ... It's strange that the spelling раз- is used here when normally аканье isn't reflected in Russian spelling. It looks like раздать needs to have some overrides added for the alternative past tenses and maybe other forms, can you add them when you have a chance? Benwing2 (talk) 13:00, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

It's a hot summer in Melbourne. I had a great swim on the beach but was very annoyed by the flies. I know it's strange with the spelling of "раз-"/"рас-"/"ро́з-"/"ро́с-". Russians seem to recall that it was "о" when they have to put a stress on it, as in ро́ссыпь (róssypʹ) (but there are words рассы́пать and рассыпа́ть), ро́зыск (rózysk) (but разы́скивать) but the number of words with "ро́з-"/"ро́с-" is limited. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:20, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev I'm in Austin TX. Not much swimming in the winter but it's been very warm, as all across the U.S.... Benwing2 (talk) 23:24, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev, Benwing2: Is the conjugation созижду (soziždu), созиждешь (soziždešʹ), созиждет (soziždet) (pre-reform созиждетъ (soziždet)), etc., attested in Russian, or only in OCS? If yes, what would the stress be? Is it dated, archaic, obsolete? What about здать (zdatʹ) or зидать (zidatʹ)? PUC – 15:42, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

@PUC: It’s сози́ждить, see ru:созиждить for the correct conjugation and stresses. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:15, 31 May 2020 (UTC)