Talk:عبر

@Fay Freak: Middle Persian widārdan and New Persian گذاردن‎ mean "to pass", Middle Persian wizārdan and New Persian گزاردن‎ mean "to explain". They are separate words.--Calak (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

@Calak The Persian also means to pass. I have found the meaning in the Qurʿān, hence I have said Middle Persian. Fay Freak (talk) 19:47, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes گذاردن‎ means "to pass", not "to explain". گزاردن means "to explain", check it here.--Calak (talk) 19:54, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

@Calak: Fraenkel wrote گذردن‎ and the Nöldeke he refers to (footnote 2) says: “گزاردن seems to have flown together early with گذاردن‎ (گذاشتن‎) = witârtan; the Arabic تعبير “to interpret” is wohl only a translation, and zwar of the latter word.” In any case the Persian entry requires mending to state its relationship. Fay Freak (talk) 20:05, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

RFV discussion: February 2020–January 2024

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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عبر

Arabic. Rfv-sense: to make cross —95.185.32.82 09:42, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

The definition is ambiguous: "cross" is probably a verb here, in which case it would be better as "to cause to cross". That's at least halfway plausible as the literal counterpart to this etymology's figurative senses. I sincerely doubt it's an adjective, which would mean "to cause to be annoyed; to annoy". Chuck Entz (talk) 12:43, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

That’s what Lane, Edward William (1863) “عبر”, in Arabic-English Lexicon‎^[1], London: Williams & Norgate, page 1937a writes about this sense: عبّرهُ بِالمَآءِ, (Lh, K,) inf. n. تَعْبِيرٌ; (TA;) and بِهِ المَآءَ ↓ عَبَرَ, (Lh, K,) and النَّهْرَ; (TA;) He made him to cross, go across, or pass over, or he conveyed him across, the water, (Lh, K, TA,) and the river. (TA.). Yes, a ditransitive verb is meant. Fay Freak (talk) 13:36, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Well, this عَبَّرَ (ʕabbara) is “to get across” in the literal meaning and in the figurative meaning (but only the latter is notorious nowadays and perhaps already in the 7th century). I do not see in what distinct sense “to interpret” is meant here which the IP added. In the example quote for the base stem it is not much different, it is just “to express to make something known with the other party”, and interpretation is always part of the process of expressing something. Probably one should change the definitions of both verbs to “to get across”, because that’s what it basically is, adding that it is normally or by now only used in the figurative sense of expressing or interpreting (to be safe in case somebody ever comes across a literal use so he might be incited by it to add his quote; now there is no hope for us to find the literal meaning by systematic search because occurrences of عبر in any form are most likely to be the base stem and the very common sense of expressing and the very common preposition “across”) Fay Freak (talk) 14:20, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

• RFV resolved; the RFV tag was removed with a clarification back in 2020 and no one seems to have objected. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:23, 21 January 2024 (UTC)