Talk:عمبة
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@Fay Freak, आम्र#Descendants points to this word as having come from Marathi, but I would guess that Persian is a better candidate. Do you have any sources for an etymology here? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:27, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge I have also already assumed that it is from Persian, see Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2019/February#amrūd, where there are also some hybrid forms with अमरूद (amrūd) / امرود (amrud) and variants of it (from Wortatlas arabischer Dialekte, which unfortunately has not made questionnaires about mangos, papayas, and guavas). There are a lot of other variants or variant spellings, regard w:ar:منجا (فاكهة): So we can spell it with ـا instead of with ـة, with أَ instead of with عَ, and even with the ending ـَج. Unfortunately I lack information about this word, which is apparently ineligible for literary use, and by all this I do not want to deal with this word any more. One would need to use a language code of some dialects but I do not even know where it is used. Fay Freak (talk) 20:05, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: Well, I imagine it must be used in Levantine Arabic, given the borrowing into Hebrew (not listed as such at he.wikt, but the stress pattern and spelling support it). The "dialects" always get short shrift at Wiktionary, and issues like this make me wish that we could start a database like how Chinese topolects are handled here, but we don't have enough interested editors. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:47, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge Turns out it is truly from Baghdadis, who have obtained it the century around 1800 from Marathi whence pickled mangos got imported. In the quoted article you find out about an Iraqi market in Tel Aviv presenting Baghdadi pickled-mango mash, and in the cited article a bit about history. More if you search “Baghdadi Jews” and “Marathi” or similar. Found the quoted article by searching "العمبة" أخبار and going some pages down and the cited article is the first image of DuckDuckGo image search. Turned out lucky. That is round enough for FWOTD probably, hadn’t an Iraqi Arabic word yet and this etymology is surprising without good reading. Fay Freak (talk) 22:10, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for the research! I am quite surprised, and now I wonder if my presumption of the Hebrew coming from Arabic is wrong, although the initial consonant seems odd otherwise. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:42, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- Why, you see in the quoted, pictured article how Baghdadis still offer their wares in Israel and so still pass their words. And the Baghdadi Jews spoke Arabic and carried over the word then. Whether Jews or Muslims passed has been left ambiguous and is left to the reader’s imagination. Otherwise which alternative? Fay Freak (talk) 23:50, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for the research! I am quite surprised, and now I wonder if my presumption of the Hebrew coming from Arabic is wrong, although the initial consonant seems odd otherwise. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:42, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge Turns out it is truly from Baghdadis, who have obtained it the century around 1800 from Marathi whence pickled mangos got imported. In the quoted article you find out about an Iraqi market in Tel Aviv presenting Baghdadi pickled-mango mash, and in the cited article a bit about history. More if you search “Baghdadi Jews” and “Marathi” or similar. Found the quoted article by searching "العمبة" أخبار and going some pages down and the cited article is the first image of DuckDuckGo image search. Turned out lucky. That is round enough for FWOTD probably, hadn’t an Iraqi Arabic word yet and this etymology is surprising without good reading. Fay Freak (talk) 22:10, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: Well, I imagine it must be used in Levantine Arabic, given the borrowing into Hebrew (not listed as such at he.wikt, but the stress pattern and spelling support it). The "dialects" always get short shrift at Wiktionary, and issues like this make me wish that we could start a database like how Chinese topolects are handled here, but we don't have enough interested editors. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:47, 11 April 2019 (UTC)