Talk:فعل لازم
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مُتَعَدٍّ[edit]
why does it end with genitive indefinite nunation? Thanks in advance. --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:12, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: Because مُتَعَدٍّ (mutaʕaddin) is a Form V participle from the defective (final-weak) root ع د و (ʕ-d-w). — Eru·tuon 20:49, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: I mean why not using it as adj., instead of in a اضافة ? by the way, what is its form V then? --Backinstadiums (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: The phrase فِعْل مُتَعَدٍّ (fiʕl mutaʕaddin) is an adjective-noun phrase, not an idafa. The -in in this case is the ending of the nominative. The perfect form corresponding to مُتَعَدٍّ (mutaʕaddin) is تَعَدَّى (taʕaddā), I think. — Eru·tuon 21:21, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: Then, what is the declension of فِعْل in its citation/dictionary form? I do not what approximate translation could be added for it. Also, then this phrase is different from فِعْل لَازِم (fiʕl lāzim), which I thought was noun + adj. --Backinstadiums (talk) 21:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: No, it's not different syntactically from فِعْل لَازِم (fiʕl lāzim) — I should have said noun–adjective, not adjective–noun. I was confusing English and Arabic word order. — Eru·tuon 22:23, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: Finally, what would be the citation/dictionary form of the whole phrase? I still do not know why the participle is in genitive --Backinstadiums (talk) 23:00, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: فِعْل مُتَعَدٍّ is the citation form. As I was trying to say, مُتَعَدٍّ is nominative. — Eru·tuon 23:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: Once again I am sorry. What I really want to know is whether it's a diptotic pattern (-in, -iya, -in) or rather triptotic like its verbal noun (-in, -iyan, -in). Furthermore, am I right to suppose that its passive participle متعدًّ is invariable? --Backinstadiums (talk) 00:34, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: I don't know what the other case-forms look like. Maybe you can find out by looking at the declension of another final-weak participle. — Eru·tuon 01:23, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: رَاعٍ (rāʕin) looks similar to مُتَعَدٍّ (mutaʕaddin). A different Form, but it is also from a final-weak verb. The two might belong to the same declension type. — Eru·tuon 07:26, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: Once again I am sorry. What I really want to know is whether it's a diptotic pattern (-in, -iya, -in) or rather triptotic like its verbal noun (-in, -iyan, -in). Furthermore, am I right to suppose that its passive participle متعدًّ is invariable? --Backinstadiums (talk) 00:34, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: فِعْل مُتَعَدٍّ is the citation form. As I was trying to say, مُتَعَدٍّ is nominative. — Eru·tuon 23:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: Finally, what would be the citation/dictionary form of the whole phrase? I still do not know why the participle is in genitive --Backinstadiums (talk) 23:00, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: No, it's not different syntactically from فِعْل لَازِم (fiʕl lāzim) — I should have said noun–adjective, not adjective–noun. I was confusing English and Arabic word order. — Eru·tuon 22:23, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: Then, what is the declension of فِعْل in its citation/dictionary form? I do not what approximate translation could be added for it. Also, then this phrase is different from فِعْل لَازِم (fiʕl lāzim), which I thought was noun + adj. --Backinstadiums (talk) 21:32, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Backinstadiums: The phrase فِعْل مُتَعَدٍّ (fiʕl mutaʕaddin) is an adjective-noun phrase, not an idafa. The -in in this case is the ending of the nominative. The perfect form corresponding to مُتَعَدٍّ (mutaʕaddin) is تَعَدَّى (taʕaddā), I think. — Eru·tuon 21:21, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Erutuon: I mean why not using it as adj., instead of in a اضافة ? by the way, what is its form V then? --Backinstadiums (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2017 (UTC)