User talk:Erutuon

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Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Spanish lemmas with a hyphen[edit]

Hey. After your excellent page Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Spanish lemmas not idiom or proverb, I'd like a request of all Spanish entries with a hyphen. There shouldn't be many entries on the list, as Spanish doesn't use them so much. Thanks in advance, anyhow. --ReloadtheMatrix (talk) 19:35, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

@ReloadtheMatrix: Done because I have files of all entry names for all languages. Whoops, that was wrong, it's supposed to be lemmas. Fixed. — Eru·tuon 19:43, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Awesome. You rule. Any chance of having the prefixes and suffixes removed? --ReloadtheMatrix (talk) 19:49, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Done. — Eru·tuon 19:56, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Gah, the search engine includes results for redirects, which is why dimensional was in the list (-dimensional redirects to it). [Edit: Anyway, fixed.] — Eru·tuon 20:34, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Adding a pronunciation table for Albanian[edit]


I'd like to ask you whether you could add a pronunciation table for Albanian with the same structure as the Ancient Greek pronunciation table. I could also provide you with the content for doing so. Apart from that, I'd like to know how links may be added to a template without having to place linking brackets around every term encompassed by it. HeliosX (talk) 17:14, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

@HeliosX: What Ancient Greek pronunciation table are you referring to? And what sort of template are you talking about? — Eru·tuon 19:36, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
I meant the current Ancient Greek pronunciation table that requires the letters to be entered in the page and, for example, this template. There should be, for instance, a link to "ali" and the noun ending in "-ã" or "-i" even though the terms are separated through "ale" in the declension table. It is not sure whether "ali" and the noun ending in "-e" should be linked because the usage of [e] or [i] in positions that allow both is usually somewhat similar and phonologically coherent. HeliosX (talk) 20:00, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
@HeliosX: Do you {{grc-IPA}}? — Eru·tuon 20:07, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I meant this one. HeliosX (talk) 20:08, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
Ahh, I see. I was confused because "table" made me think of Appendix:Greek pronunciation. I could probably make a pronunciation template for Albanian. I'm not very familiar with Albanian, so I would have to use any information that you can provide, and w:Help:IPA/Albanian and w:Albanian phonology.
I still don't understand the problem with {{rup-noun-f-ã}}. I also don't understand why there are so many forms in each cell in the table. Does every noun of this type have two indefinite plurals, one in -i and one in -e? — Eru·tuon 20:18, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for any possible aid with this. I'd have to divide the information about Albanian phonology as far as I'm concerned and as I've gotten to know into three IPA tables.
Firstly, the terms of Standard Albanian, which is mostly the same as Tosk, should have three major IPA rows. The first row would be Tosk and its phonemes are all given in the second phonology overview that you were referring to. However, the vowel [ə] is only pronounced when being stressed, in the first syllable of a word or if the word ends with a consonant after the vowel [ə]. The pronunciation due to position in the first syllable applies as well to any terms that are derived so that it is realized always in asnjë and asgjë. Contrastingly, only in the accusative forms atë, këtë, dikë, çdokë, askë and kurrkë and some terms beginning with "atë-" it may be pronounced even in the Tosk rendition of Standard Albanian. Also, the letter "r" is realized either as [ɽ] or often [ɹ] whereas [ɾ] probably does not occur. Hence, there could be a first pronunciation only with [ɽ] and, in the same row, a second pronunciation solely with [ɹ] in addition to denoting that, furthermore, [ɽ] and [ɹ] can be intermixed in a single word. Another matter concerns itself with "ë" that might also be pronounced as [ʉ] but that should only be noted next to the IPA row. The establishment and attribution of this phoneme is also a bit insecure but I've taken note of it.
The orthography of Albanian is based on the Korçan dialect of Tosk and, despite not having very many speakers at all, it should be included in the second row because it provides an explanation of the orthography. The vowel [ə] is pronounced everywhere but its speakers may not do so frequently in consideration of having learnt the general phonology of Standard Albanian, omitting these vowels in quite many positions. Nowadays, it seems that "r" is only realized as [ɹ].
Even though Gheg frequently may have its own variants for Standard Albanian vocabulary and grammar, its speakers also employ Standard Albanian and would pronounce it differently. Making only the distinction to the pronunciation of the latter in Tosk, the letter "r" has got the phoneme [ɾ], the affricates [t͡ʃ] and [d͡ʒ] can be extended to "gj" and "q", allowing two variants to be placed into the same IPA row.
In words that do not belong to Standard Albanian but only to Tosk, a second IPA table with the realization in its own dialect includes [c] and [ɟ] for the letters "q" and "gj" apart from the affricates [c͡ç] and [ɟ͡ʝ] in a single row. Those words don't have any pronunciation in Gheg but as well in the Korçan dialect.
In words of Gheg Albanian according to its own pronunciation, not including the other dialects, the information about vowels from this article can be continued for the third IPA table. Nevertheless, "ë" is still realized as [ə] unless the orthography shows that it has been altered. It can be denoted that it may also be pronounced as [ʌ] like in another dialect of Tosk but it does not have to be written into the pronunciation itself. Additionally to the Gheg pronunciation characteristics already entailed by the first IPA table, the consonantal clusters "nd" and "mb" can be pronounced as [nd] or [ⁿd] and [mb] or [ᵐb] and, written differently but derived from those, "n" and "m" as [n] or [nˠ] and [m] or [mˠ]. In order to differentiate the instants of "n" and "m" only as variants for "nd" and "mb" it should perhaps be recognized whether the term is a variant, referring to the templat usage, of a term that has "nd" or "mb" in the position of "n" and "m". The characters "q" and "gj" are not realized as [c͡ç] and [ɟ͡ʝ], but, in extension of their other possible pronunciation, also as [t͡ɕ] and [d͡ʑ]. The consonant [h] is sometimes weakened in particular when not being word-initial and, apparently, [l] can be palatized into [lʲ] at least before [ə], [ɔ] and possibly [o].
In Aromanian, both indefinite plurals may be formed. I would need links for each form that is phonetically close so that those would be, giving just an example, ali featã, ali feati and ale featã, ale feate even though there is written only "ali, ale featã, feati, feate" in the declension table. HeliosX (talk) 18:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
I don't know how to display "ali, ale featã, feati, feate" but link to ali featã, ali feati, ale featã, ale feate. Which words would link to which entries? "ali" could link to either ali featã or ali feati, and "featã" could link to either ali featã or ale featã.
In general if these are just phrases like "to the girl", we would not give them their own entries, and each word would be linked separately – ali, ale featã, feati, feate – as in the declension table in θεός (theós) where the forms of the definite article (ho) are linked separately from the forms of θεός (theós). That removes the problem of how to show individual words but link to phrases. But I am just guessing that ali and ale mean "to the", because they don't have entries yet. (I also don't know what the different final vowels mean.) — Eru·tuon 07:28, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
They almost can't be used without a, ali or ale, I found it without any separate particles of the genitive and dative cases for example in "Soarili, cã s-avea disprãs di surorili-a lui, dzenili di munti, iu chindurea cathi tahina, di li-adutsea ghiumi-mplini di lunjin, ta si-sh speal fatsa di liatsa noptsljei" in "Lunjina dit sinduchi" by Aromanian writer Dini Trandu but the author evidently employs those and a might simply have been blended together with the definite form of liatsã as this would have resulted in "liatsa-a noptsljei" according to the author's orthography. The vowels [e] and [i] can be used both and I think that the latter has been influenced maybe by Greek phonology and grammar with "-i" as frequent ending of feminine declensions. However, they could be regarded in the same way as the Albanian article used along with the genitive exoclitics, which are not included in the entries that are linked to. HeliosX (talk) 23:42, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Well, even if the genitive or dative case form doesn't occur without these other words, we don't give entries to phrases unless their meaning is not sum-of-parts as explained in WT:SOP – for example if the meaning of ali featã is not a combination of the meaning of ali and the meaning of featã. — Eru·tuon 22:06, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Having reconsidered this in comparison to the linkings in the Albanian declension tables, I'd agree that these particles don't have to be linked. HeliosX (talk) 16:07, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Well, I should clarify – I suggested that a, ale, ali should be linked separately from the noun forms, like the Ancient Greek definite articles in the declension table of θεός (theós): ali, ale featã, feati, feate. Regarding the Albanian pronunciation template, I will try to get to it eventually. I have some other projects that I'm working on at the moment. — Eru·tuon 08:31, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Toilbot unusual edit[edit]

[1] DTLHS (talk) 00:32, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. My regex to match a PoS header followed by a headword-line template wasn't good enough. — Eru·tuon 00:45, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Changing all derivations from Proto-Albanian[edit]


maybe you could use a tool for multiple edits if such tool has been devised or a programmed account to change all these instants of derivations from Proto-Albanian to inheriting. HeliosX (talk) 16:35, 6 January 2020 (UTC)


Vitruvian Barnstar.png The da Vinci Barnstar
For helping us create a smart template in the Further reading of Hungarian-language entries. Thank you so much. Adam78 (talk) 22:39, 13 January 2020 (UTC)


Hey. Can you update User:Erutuon/abbreviation headers at the next dump please? I estimate it will be around 28% the size of the current page. --Yesyesandmaybe (talk) 10:45, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

@Yesyesandmaybe: Yep! It's in the script that updates the other header pages. — Eru·tuon 19:23, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Module errors from edits to documentation submodules[edit]

Please check CAT:E. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:39, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Fixed. Thanks. I wish I'd caught it earlier. — Eru·tuon 19:15, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Well, at least the pages with the errors aren't where a lot of people would see them. It's not a big deal, but the sooner something like this is fixed, the better. Glad I could help. Chuck Entz (talk) 19:22, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Etymology at epigone.[edit]

Hello, Erutuon. I wonder if you will take a moment to visit the English language epigone page when you are able, and check on what I suspect might be an error in the etymology given there. I believe the statement within the Etymology there, that ἐπίγονος comes "from ἐπιγίγνομαι" to be incorrect, as it suggests that γόνος is derived from γίγνομαι. Rather, I think that γόνος, as did γένος, entered Ancient Greek more directly as a lemma from earlier IE sources, instead of being derived from γίγνομαι (please note the Etymology at γόνος, wherein that is indicated, and wherein γόνος is indicated to be merely the equivalent of γίγνομαι + -ος). This is much the same in Latin, wherein the noun genus cannot be said to be a derivative of the verb gigno, but rather, that it is a related word with both deriving from separate IE lexemes. It seems to make more sense to me that the noun ἐπίγονος should be derived as is shown on its page, rather than from ἐπιγίγνομαι. As for myself, I am loath to change any existing etymologies, as I am really not that learned in linguistic history, and so would like to have your more experienced eyes on this (I believe it was Victar who rightly "slapped me down" on an earlier foray of mine into the IE realm). I thought that, instead of just including an etymology template on the page, I might rather just bring it to the attention of someone who probably can assess the etymology properly. Thanks. —⁠This unsigned comment was added by (talk) at 19:33, 20 January 2020 (UTC).

Redirect problem[edit]

[2] DTLHS (talk) 16:19, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

@DTLHS: Thanks. I'll exclude redirects and look for the other redirects that my bot messed up. — Eru·tuon 19:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested edits[edit]

You reverted my edit on Wikitionary:Requested entries because there is no page for Yogotti, but I was told that Wikitionary:Requested entries was the place you request new words. WikitionaryGuy (talk) 23:26, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

@WikitionaryGuy: You must have been misinformed. Wiktionary:Requested entries links to the pages where you post requests. In this case, if Yogotti is an English word, you would post it in Wiktionary:Requested entries (English). — Eru·tuon 00:35, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

ToilBot "Normalizing" Vandalism[edit]

Is there any way you could have your bot avoid normalizing entries that have been edited too recently? I keep finding cases where someone vandalizes an entry and ToilBot tidies it before any patrollers can get to it- thus blocking it from the rollback tool. The only way around that is undoing via the edit history, which is slower and much less convenient. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:19, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Sure. That's pretty annoying. I'll work on a way to skip pages that have been edited within a certain number of hours before I run the script on a large number of pages again. — Eru·tuon 04:41, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz: Update: now the script finds pages whose most recent edit is in Recent Changes, and it starts from the oldest edits in Recent Changes and stops at edits from 12 hours ago, if it gets that far. I might change the start date because the oldest edits in Recent Changes are from 1 month ago, and some pages are probably edited more often than that. But do you think 12 hours is enough time? — Eru·tuon 19:18, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
I would be more comfortable with 24 hours, but there are others who do more rollbacks than I do- @SemperBlotto, @Surjection and @Robbie SWE, to start with. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:33, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
24 hours would probably be enough for me. — surjection?⟩ 23:05, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I've changed it to 24 hours margin for vandal-fighting. — Eru·tuon 23:48, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Esperanto ordinal numbers[edit]

I see you worked on Module:eo-headword and also applied protection to the page. Could you help me at Wiktionary:Grease_pit/2020/January#Esperanto_ordinal_numbers? I can't edit the page myself. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 15:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

ἵημι problem[edit]

Hi! In ἵημι the "Aorist: εἵμην" misses the first three persons of the indicative, although in the wikitext they are present; could you please check why don't they appear? Thank you very much! --Epìdosis (talk) 12:06, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: I see the forms missing in both the header and inside the table. That's because the singular uses first-aorist forms, ἧκᾰ, ἧκᾰς, ἧκε(ν), which are shown in a different table because of the limitations of {{grc-conj}}. And so {{grc-conj}} shows the first-person singular indicative middle εἵμην (heímēn) in the header. — Eru·tuon 21:57, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Ops, my error! Thank you very much, --Epìdosis (talk) 21:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Update 2[edit]

Hey. Can you gimme another update of User:Erutuon/abbreviation headers at the next dump? I reckon about 60% of the terms have since then been corrected (at least in the Abbreviations subpage anyway), and I find myself visiting pages I've already corrected. TIA --AcpoKrane (talk) 11:58, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

@AcpoKrane: Yep, I'll update it when the right dump files come out, as usual. — Eru·tuon 23:50, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Done. Just realized I forgot to do it after the last dump (2020-02-01). — Eru·tuon 23:48, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Nesting in translations[edit]


Do you know, which module contains the nesting? So that if you add, e.g. a Kurdish translation, you can add "Kurdish/Kurmanji" in the "Nesting"? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:33, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Yes, that's in MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder-Data.js, under var nesting = {. — Eru·tuon 23:06, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks but it's not obvious to me how language code "ku" allows nesting "Kurdish/Kurmanji". I'd like to fix Eastern Mari ("chm") as "Mari/Eastern Mari", add a Mongolian nesting "Mongolian/Uyghurjin". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev: Right, MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder-Data.js only controls nesting that is automatically generated by the TranslationAdder gadget; by editing source code manually, anyone can nest any language any way they want, and that's where the Kurdish/Kurmanji nesting for ku comes from. I think "Mongolian/Ughurjin" requires a different mechanism, which may not exist, because the nesting table in MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder-Data.js is by language code; it doesn't describe any sub-nestings for writing systems. I'm guessing that the "Serbo-Croatian: Cyrillic: ... Roman: ..." that is in quite a few translations sections was added manually, not by the gadget. — Eru·tuon 00:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Any language will allow "language name"/Cyrillic or "language name"/Roman. I have fixed the "Eastern Mari" nesting and it seems I can just use Mongolian/Ughurjin or Mongolian/Cyrillic if there is no Mongolian translation present. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:49, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Okay. I don't see any way to do "Mongolian/Ughurjin" in the translation adder (and wouldn't be able to add that capability), but if that's not necessary, great. — Eru·tuon 19:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Spanish lemmas not idiom or proverb update[edit]

Hey E. Can you rerun Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Spanish lemmas not idiom or proverb after the next dump? I linked, over the space of 4 and a bit months, all of the decent entries in there. What I'm looking for exactly is all NEW multiword entries made since the original list, so after making it, would you be able to remove all entries which appear in the original list? Only then will I be able to say that my quest has been completed. Thanks in advance --AcpoKrane (talk) 09:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@AcpoKrane: I just used a bot script, so no need to wait. This should be it. — Eru·tuon 23:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
That's just beautiful. --AcpoKrane (talk) 11:41, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Day to Days[edit]

How to I change the descendant trees ?ōs Personisgaming (talk) 15:48, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Sure, you got it![edit]

Nobody else edits as fast around here (except Equinox, of course). Anyway, if I get blocked before I'm done, would you mind adding {{audio|en|LL-Q1860 (eng)-Vealhurl-{{subst:PAGENAME}}.wav ‎|Audio (UK)}} in the Pronunciation section to all of these words that I recorded today? That would allow me to do other stuff, like, Spanish idioms or nominating people for adminship. --Gorgehater (talk) 22:30, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


Do you still update it? I'd like to generate some new wanted entry lists. – Jberkel 09:36, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

@Jberkel: Updated. (I need to figure out how to streamline the process; it's kind of tedious running all the commands.) I tried running the wanted entry script after the 2020-03-01 dump came out, but the first command failed. — Eru·tuon 23:41, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! Maybe use a simple Makefile to automate the commands? I'll take a look, sometimes there are resource-related problems, unlike Rust Java needs a lot of memory :) – Jberkel
Ok, all regenerated. It was a silly bug in the CBOR deserialization. – Jberkel 22:29, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
@Jberkel: I made a Makefile and it's now much easier to generate the template dump and entry index: just a single command for each. — Eru·tuon 21:48, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Cool, I'll renegerate the pages. – Jberkel 14:15, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
@Jberkel: I noticed that the scripts never got to the stage of saving the lists, and looked at the error log but didn't know how to fix it. Something about the Java version number if I recall right. (I wish the error log weren't spammed with progress bars or whatever; it makes it hard to read with less.) Do you have time to debug? — Eru·tuon 18:57, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
@Erutuon: yes, I foolishly updated some dependent libraries to a more modern version of Java, but Spark still needs an ancient version of the JDK. I could rollback to an older version but I'm waiting for the new version of Spark to be released, which should be soon. If it doesn't get released for the next dump I'll revert the changes. – Jberkel 21:03, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

User:ToilBot worsened paadje[edit]

Why did User:ToilBot worsen my contribution [3]? If you don't mind, I would like to revert it. There may be many cases where "usage case" is incorrectly used, but this wasn't one of them. It was just one sentence, that should be a hint for your bot to not touch it. -- 06:04, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Do not revert it. We have standardised headers, which allows us to keep track of the millions of pages on the wiki. Think of it this way: in an idealised, complete entry, there may be many relevant usage notes, or there may only be one, but all usage notes will be under the header 'Usage notes'. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:08, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
That's OK and why I asked it, but are we still allowed to call us "the English-language Wiktionary" [4] if we refuse to speak English and even have bots to remove English from content which uses it? In an idealised English-language wiktionary, we would be writing English (and that still has plural and singular, if that changes the undeclined word would probably win). On the other hand, I don't even speak standard English very well (Sassenach for Alba); for me, it's OK, I just asked. -- 07:45, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Well, "Usage notes" looks like English to me – certainly not Klingon at least. It does strictly speaking violate the rules of grammatical agreement in paadje, but Wiktionary can do what it wants because there's no Académie Anglaise to punish it for crimes against English grammar. More seriously, it would be a headache to try to make the headers agree in number with the contents of the sections, and it would make entries a bit less machine-readable, so Wiktionary has chosen one grammatical number for each header ("Usage notes" in plural, "Pronunciation" in singular) and I enforce it. This is the current convention, and changing it now might cause various bots and tools to break. — Eru·tuon 08:35, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Update to {{en-conj-simple}}[edit]

If you have time, I was wondering if you would see if {{en-conj-simple}} could be tweaked so that the archaic second person singular present tense (for example, walkest) and archaic third person singular present tense (walketh) forms could be made into links that, if clicked on, would create the inflections in an accelerated manner, in the way that it works with {{en-verb}}. There might have to be a warning somewhere that editors should check whether these verb forms are attestable. This isn't urgent. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: I've added the second-person singular past-tense form (-edst) and made the table unconditionally link the forms, because up till now they were only linked if the target page existed; linking to nonexistent pages is a requirement for adding acceleration. I think I'll add acceleration to all the forms, not just -eth and -est, as none of them have it yet. — Eru·tuon 20:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I had no idea the -edst form existed. The format looks odd, though (what’s the significance of the two columns in the “past tense” section?) – perhaps it should match the present tense column? — SGconlaw (talk) 20:10, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
The past-tense columns were basically "modern" and "Elizabethan", but I've changed it to the format of the present-tense column. — Eru·tuon 20:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
@Sgconlaw: Okay, finished the process. Added new acceleration protocols to Module:accel/en for the archaic forms. Let me know if you notice any problems. — Eru·tuon 21:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Is the acceleration working? I clicked on the links cherishest and cherishedst (note: not saying these words exist) in the sample on the documentation page, and they just led to blank pages. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
@Sgconlaw: Those links work for me. Do you have the acceleration gadget enabled in your preferences (search for "accelerated creation links" on the page)? — Eru·tuon 05:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Accelerated links in {{en-verb}} work for me. Didn’t know I had to do something extra for these – will check. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, {{en-conj-simple}} should work if {{en-verb}} does. Oh, the problem is that acceleration doesn't work in the template namespace. Try clicking the links in the conjugation table in cherish instead. — Eru·tuon 05:30, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Ah, that was the issue. Yes, it's working fine! Thanks again. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Should this extra pipe be removed? — SGconlaw (talk) 19:11, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: Huh. That definition should be {{en-archaic second-person singular past of|translate}}. Aha, here was the problem. — Eru·tuon 19:19, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Emoji u1f44d.svgSGconlaw (talk) 04:33, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Chaucer quotes in English section[edit]

Hey. Could I get a list of all Chaucer quotations in the English (but not Middle English) section of an entry? It's because they shouldn't be there, they should be in Middle English. You could put it at Wiktionary:Todo/English Chaucer. Thanks in advance --Vitoscots (talk) 17:25, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

@Vitoscots: You already saw, but I made the page. It includes things besides quotes, but it has excerpts so you don't have to waste your time visiting the entry. — Eru·tuon 23:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Love ya, Eru! --Vitoscots (talk) 00:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Chaucer list for Shakey and Milly[edit]

Hey. Can we get a list of undated Milton and Shakespeare quotes? I guess looking for

We already have those wheels, in two forms:
  1. Search for, eg, 'hastemplate:"rfdate" insource:/rfdatek\|en\|Chaucer/'
  2. Use categories like Category:Requests for date/Chaucer.
HTH. DCDuring (talk) 15:00, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
@DCDuring: Yeah, that works for {{rfdatek}}, which has the author in the template, but {{rfdate}} doesn't (though you can find examples of {{rfdate}} applied to Shakespeare, for instance, among the search results for hastemplate:"rfdate" Shakespeare); for instance in drug:
#* {{rfdate|en}} {{w|William Shakespeare}}, ''{{w|Timon of Athens}}''
#*: Hadst thou, like us from our first swath, proceeded / The sweet degrees that this brief world affords / To such as may the passive '''drugs''' of it / Freely command, thou wouldst have plunged thyself / In general riot {{...}}
Also I think Wonderfool has an enthusiasm for lists. They help keep him motivated because he can check things off and write down how much work is left.
@Vitoscots: I'll see what I can do. It's more complex than the previous Chaucer request. Gotta figure out what the format typically is. — Eru·tuon 17:49, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, you gotta keep your volunteers motivated, boss. --Vitoscots (talk) 17:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Either alternative technique yields lists from which the completed items disappear, which provides even more motivation. And what about my motivation, having added nearly ten thousand instances {{rfdatek}} and {{rfdate}} only now to have WF reject my handiwork? DCDuring (talk) 18:33, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
I didn't reject your handiwork, DCD. I was attacking your rfdefs with my steely knife. --Vitoscots (talk) 19:40, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't get it. Seems like my making a list is a good way to make your work come to fruition (with dates finally being added)! — Eru·tuon 21:19, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Your Chaucer list was less selective than "my" lists, so you must have essentially ignored the presence or absence the rfdate and rfdatek templates and the resulting categories. DCDuring (talk) 23:41, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
@DCDuring: Ahh, I see what you mean now. I thought you were talking about the Milton and Shakespeare lists. The purpose of the Chaucer list is to catch Chaucer quotes that need to be moved from the (Modern) English to the Middle English entry, so yeah, {{rfdate}} and {{rfdatek}} aren't involved. (There were false positives because I just searched for "Chaucer" in English sections without trying to figure out if it was the author of a quote, or if it was the Chaucer as opposed to another Chaucer.) But the Milton and Shakespeare lists are only occurrences in conjunction with {{rfdate}} so they are making use of your work inserting {{rfdate}}. — Eru·tuon 00:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I see. All of the Chaucer quotes now in English should be in Middle English. We had long been accommodating an excellent contributor who thought Middle English quotes, even of alternative forms should appear in the entry of the English descendant. Having the dates should make it especially obvious. BTW, it would be nice to locate each quote in the manuscript fragment it was found in. I think there are four of them, but I haven't seem dates for the fragments. BTW, you have seen how many authors there are with rfdatek and rfquotek categories, right? DCDuring (talk) 00:49, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Who was the excellent contributor, out of interest? --Vitoscots (talk) 00:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
@DCDuring: Yes, seems like a tremendous number. Maybe it would be useful to print the templates in some kind of list format, showing the definition under which {{rfquotek}} was placed, and the quote that {{rfdatek}} was placed on (somewhat like WT:Todo/Undated Milton and WT:Todo/Undated Shakespeare). Then people could more quickly look over the requests to find ones they can fill, without having to visit hundreds of pages and look over the text of them. The list could be put on a Toolforge site, though then it would be harder to give editors the satisfaction of crossing out the requests they had filled. — Eru·tuon 04:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
To make easier yet, you could include a link to a search for the quote on Google Books (and Wikisource and Gutenberg?}. The searcher might still have to shorten the search string to find the original wording of the quote, but the job would often be very easy indeed. I had thought about that while adding all the templates, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling. DCDuring (talk) 04:58, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, did the Shakespeare and Milton {{rfdate}} bit. I included the quotes in the list to make your job easier. — Eru·tuon 21:19, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Nice. It didn't take long to clean all those up. --Vitoscots (talk) 22:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
@Elvinrust: See Wiktionary:Todo/Undated English quote-templates. It's not a Milton-and-Shakespeare-only list, but it's easy to find them on it. — Eru·tuon 21:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Re: Category timestamp[edit]

Re your question on #wikimedia-tech, just checking: you are aware that the timestamp is not supposed to reflect when a category was added to a page, aren't you? See mw:Manual:Categorylinks_table#cl_timestamp. Timestamps are often updated en mass after some template change, for instance. That said, some SQL queries can often shed light on what's going on. Nemo 10:12, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: Thanks, I wasn't aware of that dynamicpagelist used cl_timestamp for category additions. That explains why the list is sometimes random. — Eru·tuon 17:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


keep things under control from now on. I'm taking a long break --Vitoscots (talk) 19:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Most deleted pages[edit]

Was just reading this Special:Diff/47099083/59225779 and wondering if this can be queried – which pages have been deleted many times but do currently exist? Do we have that data? – Jberkel 19:03, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Jberkel: Well, here is the "times deleted leaderboard", with a column indicating which titles actually exist. User talk:Equinox is at the top of the currently existing titles because Equinox doesn't believe in archiving his talk page... sigh... — Eru·tuon 19:38, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Great, thanks! lots of NSFW type words as expected but some interesting ones as well. – Jberkel 20:30, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Sigh sigh sigh. Well, I don't archive my talk page because I see "talk" as an ephemeral thing, like (to some extent) e-mail, IRC, or instant-messenger chat; distinct from the actual meat or content of the project, the entries and appendices. I can see why some people would disagree with this, especially when it's a "page" on the project (and we do archive "unowned" talk like Beer Parlour). But don't panic: my deleted stuff is still available to admins and the future historians who will read us, like Pepys, to find out what really drove amateur lexicographers in the early 21st century. (HI HISTORIAN! I SEE YOU!) I've got a vague memory that somebody (was it Purplebackpack?) tried to pass a vote preventing people deleting their talk pages, but I think it failed... can't remember... don't care really. I do take the point that if people should be able to delete their userspace then this ability shouldn't necessarily be limited to those who happen to have admin rights (required for deletion); there's always the "speedy" tag though, which tends to be respected unless it's being abused to hide ongoing debates etc. Equinox 23:20, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
@Equinox: Wrote the response below but never submitted it. Got angsty or whatever about it. So it sat in my browser (which kindly saves it for me) for weeks.
Well, most talk is un-ephemeral here. Admins can get at your talk page stuff at the moment, if they can find it in the long list of deleted revisions. But no one can use the search engine to find out when someone talked to you about something on your talk page. (Unless there's a "search deleted or past revisions" tool somewhere.) So it's best if nobody starts an important discussion on your talk page that someone might want to be able to refer back to: they'd have trouble finding it because it wouldn't come up in search results. It's not quite like a user page because other people are involved in it and it's not quite like personal IM since it's public to begin with.
Unfortunately I apparently think too much about the sort-of-lost treasures of discussion on your talk page. I didn't really mean to lecture you about it but I let my little complaint slip out and I pinged you because didn't want to complain behind your back so to speak...
PS: I think I wouldn't support a measure to require people to not delete their talk pages though. Seems too restrictive of personal liberty. — Eru·tuon 22:15, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
We agree to license all our "contributions" under whatever freebie licence so I suppose that covers talk pages too. Equinox 05:04, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

WT:Todo/Undated Bible[edit]

Hi. Good work with WT:Todo/Undated Milton, by the way. Could we get something similar for WT:Todo/Undated Bible. It has been noticed that undated Bible quotations are all over this fricking website. For some reason, DCDuring (talkcontribs) never tagged them with {{rfdatek}} so they don't show up in the categories. --Elvinrust (talk) 22:43, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

I skipped what was the most common undated cluster. It is necessary to handle not just the KJV, but also Douay and other versions. Also some quotations don't have Bible, but rather, say, Matthew. You could find most of them by searching for 'incategory:"English lemmas" insource:/\#\*[ ]+[A-Z][a-z]+/'. To speed things up you could add 'incategory:"English nouns"' and then proceed to verbs, etc. I would think we would want to link to Wikisource's edition of KJV if at all possible. DCDuring (talk) 22:57, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
@DCDuring, Elvinrust: Made the list using that regex, looking at all English sections. I'm surprised that it really does catch mostly Bible quotations! It seems like it should be too general. I thought of filtering it by "Bible" and names or abbreviations of books of the Bible, but it doesn't seem worth it. — Eru·tuon 02:06, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
That regex WAS the one I used to try to catch ALL of the quotations that didn't start with a date. I just didn't insert {{rfdatek}} or {{rfdate}} in the biblical quotes. DCDuring (talk) 02:09, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
The advantage of using the search with a regex is that it yields a dynamic list, removing those that have been corrected and adding any that may have been added while the operation is in process. DCDuring (talk) 02:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
@DCDuring: Aha, it was your work. Thanks. Yeah, the search engine has its advantages. I could try to update the list more frequently using the MediaWiki API (generating a list of pages, getting their content, searching it), but it would be more complicated and doesn't seem worth the trouble since Wonderfool is the only person who seems to be using the lists at the moment and he likes crossing stuff off. — Eru·tuon 01:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I was happy when I discovered how the short regex caught so many (also, such a large proportion) of the quotations without dates. Talk about low-hanging fruit. Going after easy targets does mean that the remaining targets are less likely to be found. The ultimate residual mechanism of manual individual contributor error-detection and -correction is very slow.
Also, the reqex I used actually allowed for multiple occurrences of "#": [#]+. DCDuring (talk) 13:35, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I used a pattern with the equivalent because it checked that the list marker was at the beginning of a line and "<line start>#*" would skip quotes under sub-definitions. I ultimately generated a JSONL file of probably-quote wikitext from English sections to make it faster to find Bible quotes. (Searching the dump for quotes took ~2 minutes at best but searching the quote file takes a few seconds.) — Eru·tuon 19:19, 7 May 2020 (UTC)


Also, it would be fun to see the league table for the most one-sided thank relationship (an unrequited-love list, if you will), like this where we can all see that I'm so meta even this acronym (talkcontribs) is totally stalking JohnC5 (talkcontribs) (951 thanks), but with a part where JohnC5's number of thanks to ISMETA (341) is deducted from that total. --Elvinrust (talk) 22:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Which makes me think of another fun list - most affectionate thank-couples (combined thank-totals...John as ISMETA will win that, hands down) --Elvinrust (talk) 22:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Ooh, and a list of the most aggressive relationships, coz I'm gonna make a documentary about it called Users who Revert Other Users. --Elvinrust (talk) 22:53, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


For some hiragana entries I can’t remove the header, therefore you see some weird empty header which is my attempt of removing it. Thanks for the correction! Shen233 (talk) 03:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

You may not be very familiar with Japanese wiktionary, but for most non-lemma hiragana entries, no header is needed for the current "{{ja-see}}" redirect mechanism. There maybe a noun and a verb which share the same hiragana, then we separate them by etymologies, such as 五日 (いつか) a noun and いつか, an adverb. In older practices they put PoS and then "{{ja-def }}" though. Shen233 (talk) 04:03, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I did a little editing of Japanese, mostly updating {{ja-readings}} and fixing ruby, in the past, before {{ja-see}} was renovated. Here I was just removing the empty header === ===: it isn't officially allowed in WT:EL and shows up in my cleanup list, User:Erutuon/mainspace headers/possibly incorrect. — Eru·tuon 17:48, 7 May 2020 (UTC)


Hi, Erutuon. Could you change a part of Module:es-pronunc? In Template:es-IPA ll is shown as a consonant with different pronounciation in Castile and Latin America but that is not accurate. yeísmo and lleísmo exist in both regions, yeísmo is preferred in both too. Words like llamar should say "(yeísmo) IPA(key): /ʎaˈmaɾ/ (lleísmo) IPA(key): /ɟ͡ʝaˈmaɾ/. Thanks in advance. 20:04, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this should be changed, but it's more complicated because seseo is also involved. So with this change, there might have to be four pronunciations, distinción and lleísmo, distinción and yeísmo, seseo and lleísmo, seseo and yeísmo. I don't know if all of these exist. It would be better to discuss this at Module talk:es-pronunc. — Eru·tuon 16:26, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Yes, all of them exist, being distinción + lleísmo the less common way. Someone posted a message in 2018 and it remains unanswered. I'll repeat my request there. Regards. Lin linao (talk) 18:57, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Missing Spanish idioms[edit]

Hey. Can you make me a list of all the entries in this Spanish cat that are not in en.wikt? Let's put it at Wiktionary:Todo/Missing Spanish verb idioms --Spanishlearner574 (talk) 21:50, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Spanishlearner574: Okay, made a Quarry query and pasted the results there. — Eru·tuon 22:57, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Sweet. There's more entries there than I was expecting. --Spanishlearner574 (talk) 23:16, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
Could you make that list even better by including links to es.wikt, like below - I started doing it manually offline but found no quick way to make the changes. --Undurbjáni (talk) 10:35, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
@Undurbjáni: Ah, yeah, makes sense. Added it. You can change the look of it by editing the same part that I edited. — Eru·tuon 15:54, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
  1. abrir cancha (es:abrir cancha)
  2. abrir el tarro (es:abrir el tarro)

Category:Han script[edit]

This has had a mostly unnoticed module error for quite some time. As far as I can tell, it's a disagreement between Module:category tree/script cat/blocks and Module:Unicode data/blocks about where the end of a block is, and it seems to have been triggered by this edit. Could you take a look at it? It's definitely not high priority, but it's mildly annoying... Chuck Entz (talk) 01:31, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Thanks! Fixed. That was because Module:scripts/data was assigning a range of unassigned code points ending in U+2FFFF to Hani, and that one doesn't have a block assigned to it. It would be handy to include the whole Supplementary Ideographic Plane (U+20000-U+2FFFF) because I guess it will only ever include Han characters, but Module:category tree/script cat/blocks requires the first and last code points of the ranges to be assigned. — Eru·tuon 01:58, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

fixing excessive width of Hungarian-language number boxes[edit]

(Antecedents.) Would you please change the display of "Adverbial ordinal:" to A.o. (preferably with this tool tip) in Module:number list? See e.g. tizenkilenc. Currently this seems to be the only way to avoid its double entries excessively widening the table, without any side-effects. Thank you in advance.

Another way I could imagine is inserting a string length check possibly before table.concat(form, ", ")), so that a line break should be inserted instead of a space after the comma if a given value is longer than e.g. 15 characters. However, it would affect lots of other tables as well, so I understand if you'd rather avoid it, although it might be some improvement nevertheless.

I've deleted one out of the three values given at Adverbial ordinals from Module:number list/data/hu, because the formatting of its values simply didn't allow the number box to be inserted into másodszor; it produced an error message. A similar solution could be considered for the distributive, possibly abbreviating it to "Dist.:", because we're bound to have the same problem, see e.g. száz. (@Panda10, do you have any suggestion?) Adam78 (talk) 22:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have any new suggestions. Panda10 (talk) 16:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately string length is complicated. There is a function to count the number of code points, but it doesn't correspond to the number of visible characters when you have, for instance, combining accents (a + ́ = á). This doesn't come up with many European languages, but would with various Indian and Southeast Asian scripts. The number of Unicode graphemes is better (á is a single grapheme) but we don't a grapheme-counting function here on Wiktionary; I'd have to find or write one. Graphemes aren't exactly proportional to font length, but they are closer.
I think these tweaks are not the final answer to the problem of the number box layout. Some sort of redesigning would be better, but I have no good ideas at the moment and I'm just discouraged about the whole thing. I might implement your suggestions as a temporary measure. — Eru·tuon 00:02, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
All right, no problem. In this case, forget about string length. All I'd like to ask you is modify these two names in the list:
I was also thinking about the current term "number of people", which is named "adverb of number" in a grammar book, but it sounds too unspecific to me (many of these terms are some kinds of adverb of number anyway), so it's better kept as it is, unless you suggest otherwise. Thanks a lot in advance. Adam78 (talk) 18:35, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
@Adam78: I changed the display of "adverbial ordinal" but am not sure what to do about distributive because it's also used by other languages. Maybe there needs to be a way to customize the label for each number type for each language. — Eru·tuon 18:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
OK, thank you. We're still one step ahead. Now the width looks considerably better, if not the best. Adam78 (talk) 23:18, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Arabic new entry templates[edit]

Hello, I created these templates: Template:ar-nogomatch

and then I realized that it should be added to MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new. Can you please add it there to language picker the dropdown? LinguisticMystic (talk) 09:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

@LinguisticMystic: I've added the buttons from Template:ar-nogomatch, but I modified the style to match the rest of the languages in MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new. — Eru·tuon 18:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! Actually it's still not working, when I try to create a new entry, only English, American Sign Language, Spanish, Swedish pop up in the dropdown menu, and they dont seem to be working either. When I select Swedish, for example nothing happens. LinguisticMystic (talk) 18:28, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm wondering what could be the problem. LinguisticMystic (talk) 18:40, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@LinguisticMystic: MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new doesn't have a dropdown menu, at least with my settings. You must be seeing a different MediaWiki message. — Eru·tuon 18:51, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Below the table, below VERB, it says English, Select a different language. If you click English, the others appear, except for Arabic. LinguisticMystic (talk) 18:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@LinguisticMystic: Ah, it looks like I'd disabled MediaWiki:Gadget-SpecialSearch.js, which generates the dropdown menu in MediaWiki:Searchmenu-new. I might be able to figure out why the gadget isn't picking up Arabic. — Eru·tuon 19:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the other options don't work for me either, only the default English option, so please check if the code is okay. LinguisticMystic (talk) 19:11, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Great. It is working indeed. Thanks a lot. You made my work much easier and faster. LinguisticMystic (talk) 20:10, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Module errors due to removing items from Module:unsupported titles/data[edit]

{{unsupported|://}} at Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2016/October#Possible future vote about deleting all programming language_symbols, {{unsupported|ideographic space}} at ideographic space, and a whole Finnish-declension-table full of unsupported inflected forms at Unsupported titles/n:s. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:41, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Ouch. Reverted. I noticed the one (), but didn't go looking for more. Later I might try to figure out which titles were added in the edit and restore them, or maybe User:J3133 will be kind enough to do it. — Eru·tuon 04:47, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

lots of rfdateks[edit]

Hi. It's been a while since I've bugged you for a random list. Would you be able to cook up a list of the entries which contain the most occurrences of {{rfdatek}} and {{rfdate}}? My bet is the "winner" will have around 25. --Nueva normalidad (talk) 07:42, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

@Nueva normalidad: Shoot, forgot about this. But lists are fun. I made User:Erutuon/lists/rfdate and rfdatek leaderboard but unfortunately you and others have been so diligent that the most winning one has only half that. — Eru·tuon 07:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Nueva’s been blocked, but I suppose he’ll be back in another incarnation before long. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Oh right, I forgot that too. — Eru·tuon 19:03, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, (s)he is probably gonna be back soon, but will probably be going anonymous. I, OTOH, as a completely new user, happen to be interested in this too, and give thanks for the creation of the list. --Dada por viva (talk) 00:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Curly quotes in CFI[edit]

I would like to ask you to undo adding curly quotes to CFI since they are in fact quite controversial, as per vote that I will try to find; "Any substantial or contested changes require a VOTE." The vote is Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2008-12/curly quotes in WT:ELE; it pertains to EL specifically, but it would be the same story for CFI. This should only be done via a vote. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky: The edit was undertaken by request of User:J3133 because WT:STYLE#Quotations seems to sort of favor curly quotes, in entries in particular. I don't consider this a substantial change, but it's contested since you at least contest it. I see there are some slightly newer polls about this too, which didn't show strong favor for curly quotes (Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2013-02/Disallow typographic punctuation in policies, Wiktionary:Votes/2013-02/Typographic vs ASCII punctuation in policies). I favor curly quotes myself and don't see why WT:CFI should be different from entries, which already use curly quotes to a great extent because common modules or templates like Module:links and {{rfc}} use them, but I'll revert since I'm not interested in drawing controversy. — Eru·tuon 17:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. I reverted recent changes made by User:J3133 in Wiktionary:Style guide in which they introduced curly braces without any trace to a discussion or a vote. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
@Dan Polansky: Now you're pissing me off with your edit warring over quotes in User:AryamanA/Wonderfool. Holding extended discussions in edit summaries in an edit war is an idiotic practice that I refuse to engage in. Since when are user pages prohibited from having curly quotes unless they are prescribed for policy pages by a vote? If that were a policy, then you should go around annoying more people by changing their curly quotes and apostrophes to straight ones. — Eru·tuon 18:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't like to piss you off. Why does your preference in User:AryamanA/Wonderfool prevail over my preference? Why did you revert me the first time knowing there is no consensus for curly braces, not even 55% majority? The status quo ante in that page is no curly braces; what makes the status quo ante not prevail? --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
@Dan Polansky: I suppose it's reasonable to assert that it's a status quo, and that User:AryamanA's Wonderfool page is more like a Wiktionary-namespace page than a user page at this point. So, yes I regret reverting you now. However, I wish that in reverting you would restore the indisputably legitimate changes that do not involve this apparently controversial typographical issue. — Eru·tuon 19:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
An issue that User:J3133 raised in a private message with me is that Wiktionary:Style guide already has some curly quotes. His edit was an improvement in consistency. — Eru·tuon 19:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I wanted to only revert the quotes; I apologize for reverting more than that, a mistake. J3133 seems to be Wonderfool, who likes to stir controversy. Wiktionary:Style guide was edited by J3133. To me, all private messages are a red flag, but maybe I am a hyper-transparentist. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:17, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
@Dan Polansky: From my personal experience I can assure you that J3133 is not Wonderfool, nor is there any significant resemblance between them once you actually get to know them. In publicly visible behavior there's the fact that J3133 doesn't engage in the same goofy stunts as Wonderfool, and hence has been granted autopatroller status. I do prefer that discussions that require input from others or consensus be on-wiki so that they're publicly accessible, but find Discord useful for dealing with relatively uncontroversial things. I thought that curly quotes would be an uncontroversial issue because WT:STYLE says they're preferred and they are used in many common templates, but apparently at least you disagree, so there should be some on-wiki discussion or yet another tedious poll. — Eru·tuon 19:33, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Wiktionary:Style guide is not a policy. It would be better do delete these kinds of non-vote-controlled quasi-policy pages where non-consensual material accumulates, or at least change them to "kept for historical interest". --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:39, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Module Errors from Whitespace in Language codes[edit]

I've seen two module errors in the past 24 hours where Module:redlink category called Module:links.getLinkPage for a link and the template in the entry had "|da |" as the language code. The only recent change I could find was your edits to Module:links. They were easy to fix, so they probably weren't around long enough for you to see them. Here and here are the diffs from before I fixed them. Please take a look. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 06:54, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Huh. Odd little bug. This fixes it, because named parameters have whitespace stripped from them. — Eru·tuon 07:12, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


Hi. I can't edit the page perfection. Please can you add the quote to the entry? It's from Philip Sidney's Arcadia - at Talk:perfection --Kriss Barnes (talk) 18:13, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

@Kriss Barnes: There you go! — Eru·tuon 18:23, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Cheers. Could you do the Bible quote at cool too? #* '''1611''', Bible ({{w|King James Version}}) --Kriss Barnes (talk) 18:27, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
@Kriss Barnes: Done as well! — Eru·tuon 18:36, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
And the quote by William Woty at [[perfection]] is from 1770, the poem A Mock Invocation to Genius --Kriss Barnes (talk) 20:49, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
@Kriss Barnes: Filled out the citation, hopefully correctly. — Eru·tuon 19:48, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Joseph Hall's quotes[edit]

Thanks again for tracking down the previous request. The next mini-project was the 17th century bishop Joseph Hall's quotes - I dated all of them here except for 3 - at occecation, cramming and waning, which I couldn't figure out - maybe you can fill them in for me. Anyway, I declare the Joseph Hall dating project complete, and will move on to something else. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 09:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Ugh, I did a brief search but I'm not clever enough to find the Bishop's occecations and crammings and wanings. — Eru·tuon 08:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

"no duplicate parameters as of the latest dump, so safe to throw error here"[edit]

See CAT:E: 9 templates, 18 module errors- all of them with their html showing. It's not something you see everyday... Chuck Entz (talk) 07:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Ouch. Thanks for the ping, I've reverted my misinformed edit. (I didn't think and looked for |tr1= instead of |tr= when parameter 1 was present, so I missed all the {{ar-IPA}} with both Arabic and transliteration.) Apparently strange stuff happens when a module error includes an erroring template. — Eru·tuon 09:08, 30 July 2020 (UTC)


Hey. Can you regenerate User:Erutuon/lists/rfdate and rfdatek leaderboard after (I guess) the next dump? Just to see how little progress I have actually made and make me super-demotivated. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 08:50, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

@Kriss Barnes: There you go! — Eru·tuon 00:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Awesome. I think I have sliced off about 15% of that list, which is just small enough to still count as a mere drop in the ocean and, indeed, to de-motivate me. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 00:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Did it really take over an hour to make the list? If so, double-thanks. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 00:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
@Kriss Barnes: Oh, no, it takes about 80 seconds to run the script over the 6-GiB dump. But then I go away from the computer to wait for it and come back later to post it, and then come up with a change and rerun it, and so on, so the whole process is drawn out. — Eru·tuon 00:26, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Ah, OK, so it takes over an hour to make the list... It takes about that time for me to date 50 quotes (with an estimated accuracy rating of 96%). Sometimes I wonder why I spend soooo much time on this task. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 00:31, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Scripts in Module:languages[edit]

We now have script data for about two-thirds of the languages we have codes for (and with effort, could bring that higher). In the past, "canonical name", "Wikidata item" and "family" were made positional rather than explicitly named parameters/fields, which I seem to recall was to make the modules more efficient in their use of memory. Would it make sense to also make scripts "positional", or would handling cases where languages have multiple scripts make this not worth the bother? - -sche (discuss) 22:06, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@-sche: Yeah, it would be a good idea now. Just have to track down all the modules that access the "scripts" field in the language data modules, change them to check for field 4 as well, move all the "scripts" fields to field 4, and finally change all the modules to access field 4. — Eru·tuon 19:13, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Template:cite-meta spacing problems[edit]

As exhibited by Template:R:sga:GOI, cite-meta is refusing to put a space between the translators and the next citation element in line. I wonder if other parameters suffer the same problem. mellohi! (僕の乖離) 18:41, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

@Mellohi!: Well, I'm not familiar with {{cite-meta}}, but I made this edit, which fixes the problem in {{R:sga:GOI}}, though it might cause other problems elsewhere and need to be reverted. — Eru·tuon 19:08, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Do you know anyone else who is familiar with it? mellohi! (僕の乖離) 19:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
@Mellohi!: It looks like User:Sgconlaw has edited it the most; Sgconlaw, could you look over my edit? It unconditionally adds a space after the parenthesis that contains the year or date, but I don't know if that's going to always be correct. — Eru·tuon 19:20, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Actually, I was thinking of revising this meta-template so that it no longer displays the date or year of publication between the author's name and the title. I think this might be simpler and eliminate the problem you describe. However, it's not going to happen immediately as I'll need to find some time to work on it. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:35, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Old Irish empty inflection tables[edit]

I remember you brought up these empty declension tables off-wiki, where there are a bunch of Old Irish entries using {{sga-decl-noun}} and stating supposed stem classes but with no forms inputted in. I would like to ask, is it possible to configure the template or its backend module so that if no parameters other than stem class are filled, what happened here, the page ends up in a maintenance category like "Old Irish nouns with empty inflection tables". Could Module:sga-verbs also be configured the same way to catch verb conjugation tables with no forms into "Old Irish verbs with empty inflection tables"? mellohi! (僕の乖離) 20:23, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

@Mellohi!: I've made Module:sga-nouns add Category:Old Irish nouns with empty inflection tables to pages where {{sga-decl-noun}} has no parameter besides |class=, if that's what you mean. I don't know under what condition Module:sga-verbs displays absolutely no forms in the table though. — Eru·tuon 21:59, 8 August 2020 (UTC)


I hear you're the person to go to for lists, so if you're down I have some requests for lists to connect entries by etymology. These are the 3 types that I want to tackle, with one each to start:

  1. Latin entries that list Italian descendants that aren't linked to from the Italian descendant: User:Ultimateria/oneway/la-it
  2. Category:Armenian terms borrowed from Russian that aren't linked to from the Russian etymon: User:Ultimateria/oneway/hy-ru
  3. Category:Catalan words suffixed with -ment that aren't linked to from |2= of the suffix/affix template: User:Ultimateria/oneway/-ment ca

I'm slowly running out of tasks like this that I can find with regex searches, so I'd appreciate your help. Ultimateria (talk) 01:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I've created the la-it page with an example to show you what I'm picturing. Ultimateria (talk) 16:29, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Hmm, it's an interesting task. It's somewhat more complex than some of the other lists I've done, because it requires looking at two sets of pages in the dump (the first set of pages, and the pages that should be linking to them), but I'll give it a try today. — Eru·tuon 19:19, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Okay, created a first version of the la-it list, but it isn't completely accurate. I'll post a new version when I fix it. — Eru·tuon 03:14, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Fixed. Note that I only checked for links in the Descendants section of the Latin entry and an Etymology section of the Italian entry, and in particular templates ({{l}}, {{m}}, {{desc}}, {{inh}}, {{der}}, {{bor}}). If you think of any additional places or templates, let me know. — Eru·tuon 08:39, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Perfect, thank you! :D Ultimateria (talk) 16:15, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
Finished the other two as well. — Eru·tuon 01:28, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks so much! Ultimateria (talk) 16:38, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Technical Request: Mass "touch" request to purge caches of transclusions where page was updated.[edit]

Many of the entries in :

where fixed by updates to an uderlying template.

However, in order for those changes to propogate and clear the lint-errors, each page on the list, appears to need to be purged or a null edit conducted to 'force' the updated version to be used.

Doing this manually for > 10,000 pages isn't feasible, hence a bot or script would be better. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:02, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Done! Now it's down to half or so of the original ~50,000. — Eru·tuon 05:18, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Doing another run should clear-out a few more - :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:09, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Ran again, and that lint error has 8,516 pages now. (It took 48,430 seconds at about 1 edit per second, whew.) — Eru·tuon 23:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Deletion of Category:grc:Greek letter names in Ancient Greek[edit]

Hi Erutuon, I replied on my talk page. The thing missing with the deletion is the link to the page on the French wiktionary.--OpenNotes1 (talk) 21:42, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Advice needed[edit]

Hello @Erutuon, hello teacher! Hope you are having a nice summer! A piece of advice, please. I did here -in my clumsy way-, but I do not know how to think, which Module I could start studying, to manage the opposite: I have seen your typing aids but I do not know what to do... I have tried many silly ways to split the syllables (1letter, 2letters, 3ltters with "-" as boundary). Could you give me some directions? Where to look at? This and that module...
P.S. Question2: Also, I have made a page with all data. Can this be used for specific conversions? Or, I need to do one pattern for each kind of conversion, like this one? Thanks ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 00:04, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: Hello again! I looked at your modules. At first I was thinking it would be possible to write a Lua pattern (regex) for the syllables, or several patterns that would be searched in order, but actually there would be some ambiguities (rai versus ra-i for instance). So your method of separating the codes for the Linear B characters is the easiest to implement. latin_to_symbol looks the closest to the method I would use. But you can iterate over the hyphen-separated bits with mw.text.gsplit(latin, "%-") (instead of string.gmatch(text, "."), which iterates over bytes) and just return table.concat(ret) at the end of the function because the loop will not look at the hyphens any more. This requires hyphens to be removed from el:Module:my/translitToUni.
As for the el:Module:Linb-translit/data, I'd keep it as a master data module, but you can have other data modules that require it, loop through it, and generate other formats, such as a code-to-character table for your latin_to_symbol to use, or a character-to-image table. With my suggested changes to latin_to_symbol above, el:Module:my/translitToUni would need to be something like:
local code_to_char = {}
for _, v in pairs(require("Module:Linb-translit/data")) do
	local latin, code, uni = v.latin, v.code, v.uni
	code_to_char[code] = uni
	code_to_char[latin:gsub("[%*%?]", "")] = uni
return code_to_char
So then all the data modules would be built based on the master data module, and you would only have to edit in one place.
I don't know if this is quite enough information; if not let me know and I can try explaining further or edit the modules myself. — Eru·tuon 18:48, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
ΤΗΑΝΚ ΥΟΥ Erutuon. Very much. I will try ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 19:47, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
@Erutuon! @Erutuon! Everything works like a wonder. And I do not need all the subpages now, with your «_, v in pairs». Everything comes from the data page, just as you wrote. And your blue links in the modules with the common.js! One more gift. You have no idea how precious your help is. Thanks ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 00:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
@Sarri.greek: Glad I could help! About the CodeLinks gadget, if you haven't, you can also enable it in your Preferences here as well. — Eru·tuon 16:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

extracting data from dumps[edit]

What technology would you suggest for extracting data from dumps? (For example, Chinese pronunciations of words.) —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:57, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: Well, I mostly know of the tools that I wrote myself. It depends what data exactly. I have a program with a template-dumping subcommand, and another program in the same repository for running Lua scripts (yeah, I even use Lua off-wiki) over various aspects of pages. They're both badly documented because nobody's asked me to document them so far, but I use both of them regularly. For Chinese pronunciations specifically there's a dump of {{zh-pron}} on Toolforge. It's in CBOR format, but I could also dump in JSONL format, which is a bit less niche. So you could take that and write a script in your favorite language to iterate over it, and, say, get parameter |c= on page x. If any of this sounds useful, I can give more information.
(I feel like another likely question would be "how do I run modules off-wiki?", but I haven't really worked that out, beyond making Module:languages and a few other modules work. It would be useful for my IPA searcher because I could include more pronunciation templates, but it feels like such a complicated task that I haven't even tried yet.) — Eru·tuon 19:31, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
Thinking about it, I think the {{zh-pron}} dump would be good enough for what I'm thinking of. (I was thinking about doing extra work to combine pronunciations with all the forms from {{zh-forms}}, but maybe it's not really necessary, possibly even undesirable.) —Suzukaze-c (talk) 08:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Is the processing manually started? I notice that the latest update is 2020-08-20 (last month). —Suzukaze-c (talk) 05:32, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
@Suzukaze-c: Yeah, kind of. I have to log in to Toolforge to start the Makefile recipe for the template dumps, and I also have to manually update the HTML page with month links. Not ideal. I actually ran the 2020-09-01 and 2020-09-01 template dumps but didn't write them into the page. Done. Should have a little script that writes in the month links. — Eru·tuon 05:46, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Cool :)
(To take away the mystery, I'm using the dumps here.)
Suzukaze-c (talk) 05:52, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Yay! I'm glad someone else has found a use for them. So far it's only been User:Jberkel/lists/wanted, which I haven't figured out how to update for a while though I have access on Toolforge. — Eru·tuon 09:13, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Requesting an update to 2020-11-20. _(:3 」∠ )_ —Suzukaze-c (talk) 23:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Done. I'd run the process for 20201120 but not updated the "latest" link. — Eru·tuon 00:00, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Most used RQ template - listy fun![edit]

Hey, List-Man. I was wondering what our most used Quotation Template is. Could you make a list of the most widely used ones? I'm looking for Templates that start with RQ: My money is on either Template:RQ:King James Version or Template:RQ:Spenser Faerie Queene. One tricky thing is that some templates redirect to others (like Template:RQ:KJV and Template:RQ:Spenser FQ , so they'll need to be counted together, I guess. It'd probably be useful to get a list of all unused RQ templates too - they might want to be deleted. --Java Beauty (talk) 10:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

@Java Beauty: Well, here's the lazy version – the number of pages transcluding each RQ template (filtering out redirects because when a redirect is transcluded its target is as well). Lazy because this counts 50 KJV templates on a single page as 1. Have to do wikitext parsing to actually figure out the total number of template instances. But given the numbers here, there's gotta be no way any template beats the KJV one. — Eru·tuon 21:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm happy with a lazy list. According to this research, it seems that we're an extremely religious website - I wasn't aware. The Muslims won't be happy that their book was beaten by the Jewish one, either... --Java Beauty (talk) 21:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
Another useful thing: It turns out that Wonderfool's Wiktionary:Easter Competition 2010 bore much fruit. EP using Template:RQ:Schuster Hepaticae, Daniel. using Template:RQ:mul:Rowling Harry Potter, and Widsith's Template:RQ:Spenser Faerie Queene. And, funnily, there are still a handful of Who Let The Dogs Out? quotes left from Wonderfool himself. --Java Beauty (talk) 21:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
We'll all reunite again in 2030 to analyse something else and pat ourselves of the back. --Java Beauty (talk) 21:46, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Easy dates[edit]

Can you please make a list at User:Erutuon/lists/cheap dates (pun intended) of all entries containing {{rfdate}} or {{rfdatek}}, the author AND the name of the work? For example the one at chrematistic which looks #* {{rfdate|en}}, {{w|Ludwig von Mises}}, ''{{w|Human Action}}''. These should in theory be really easy to date, so easy in fact that even n00bs can do it. --Java Beauty (talk) 16:14, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Behold, it is done. I used a very broad search, just looking for rfdate template comma something comma something in italics. — Eru·tuon 21:41, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
A broad search for a broad church. It's great, thanks! --Java Beauty (talk) 21:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I think I checked all the English ones from that page. Any chance of an update? Maybe you can include pages containing rfdate template comma something comma quotation mark too, as that's a common format used. Daleusher (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
Yup, after the 20th when they start the next dumping process. I'll add to the search pattern. — Eru·tuon 01:20, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

a request for help with Lua[edit]

Could you please help me with Module:hu-nominals? I've been trying to fix it for several hours but one little bit is still missing. I wanted to add a new parameter option called "isg", that is, i-type singular, so that multiple-possession forms (which have an -i instead of the normal plural -k) can be inflected like singular terms (without adding -k) but should be displayed in the plural column (since it is a kind of plural). It works all right, the values are correct, with the sole exception that the value of the parameter "esm_sg" (for whether the essive-modal singular should be displayed) should be copied into "esm_pl", so if it is set, esm_sg should be displayed in the plural column just like all other singular forms, and if it is not set, it should be indicated with a dash. During my various different attempts, sometimes it was displayed even if it was not set and sometimes it was not displayed even if it was set. For example in the case of ablakai, if I enter {{hu-infl-nom|ablakai|o|n=isg|esm_sg=1}}, it should be displayed, but if I enter {{hu-infl-nom|ablakai|o|n=isg}}, it should not be displayed. Could you possibly help me? Adam78 (talk) 20:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@Adam78: I've implemented the logic you intended (I think). However, it seems counterintuitive to me that |esm_sg=1 actually causes the esm_pl form to be displayed in the table if |n=isg is present. It may also have made it harder for you to implement the logic in Lua. I'd suggest using |esm_pl=1 plus |n=isg for the same effect, but maybe the existing logic makes more sense to someone who actually speaks Hungarian. — Eru·tuon 05:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I admit it may be counterintuitive, but I think it's consistent with the other singular forms being displayed in the plural column, and it also makes it easier for us to change the existing code, having to insert only a letter "i". (We'll need to update a few thousand entries, although I hope we can get some help from a bot admin.) Thank you once again. Adam78 (talk) 10:17, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

A space lost in my Lua[edit]

@Erutuon, hate to bother you again. Everyone asks for your help... If you ever have a little time, could you check why is it that i get my Lua templates stuck togerher, without a space between them: it is explained at el:Module talk:labels. I have tired everything... I just cannot understand it at all :( If you do not have time, it is no problem: I can always go back to my old Module linking to lemmata and not to Cateogries. Thank you. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 05:29, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, @Erutuon so much for your immediate response! I do not know why this happens. We use |0=xx very often to take away parenthesis. I was wondering if it had to do something with this Legacy Vector and various wikis. Thank you ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 07:14, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: Well, turns out I was wrong about |0=! It works both ways. But see the other thing I figured out on el:Module talk:labels. — Eru·tuon 07:25, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Your magic! again. I thank you @Erutuon for helping el.wikt! We needed these labels so much! We use the zeros for parameters noparenthesis 0=- nocat 00=- and nodisplay is 000=- so that we will not have to change keyboards all the time. So, you saved us! ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 08:15, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Working with the graph module[edit]

Hi erutuon,

I'm trying to use the mw:Module:Graph, but I'm getting Lua error in Module:Graph at line 1406: attempt to call method 'getParent' (a nil value). Thanks to your response on this this talk page, I know that the error is beacuse I'm not using a frame object, which has a function called getParent().

My intention is to use this module inside another module, and the below code is what I have tested (that returns the described error). I was wondering if you could help me out, and tell me how to "recreate" a frame object.

 graph = require("Module:Graph")
 function p.test()
	return graph.chartWrapper{type="line", width=1000, height=500, linewidth=4, x=2, y=22}

Thank you,

Ajuanca (talk) 15:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi, it looks like the function you should be calling in a module is graph.chart. The graph.chartWrapper function is for use in templates and it's possible but massively inconvenient to use it in a module because you have to write lots of nested tables and functions. For graph.chart you need a table with a field args containing the table of arguments in your example (graph.chart { args = { --[[ args here ]] } }). Inconvenient still, but less so as it's only one level of nesting. 17:47, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
hi! thank you so much for your fast response (and sorry for my late response). With:
return graph.chart { args= {type="line", width=1000, height=500, linewidth=4, x=2, y=22} }
I got the raw otuput on the wiki:
and not the graph, as I pretend. How could I solve this? --Ajuanca (talk) 13:04, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
@Ajuanca: I'm sorry, I don't know. I haven't used the graph module or the graph extension. — Eru·tuon 19:52, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Thank you anyway Erutuon! I apreciate your help. stay safe, Ajuanca (talk) 07:49, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

We sent you an e-mail[edit]

Hello Erutuon,

Really sorry for the inconvenience. This is a gentle note to request that you check your email. We sent you a message titled "The Community Insights survey is coming!". If you have questions, email

You can see my explanation here.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Wanted templates[edit]

Hi again. Can you generate a list of Wanted templates? One just like this but without all the Tracking crap. --Java Beauty (talk) 14:44, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Well, here it is. Was surprised it took all of 8 or 9 minutes to generate, but the templatelinks file is huge so it makes sense.
You can also remove tracking templates from Special:WantedTemplates by adding importScript('User:Erutuon/scripts/hideUnwantedCategories.js'); to your common.js. (Use this link to see all 5000 entries, though still it doesn't have all the more obscure templates on my list.) — Eru·tuon 07:39, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Looks good! I trimmed the list to suit my own needs and put it at WT:Todo/RQ Crap. You can probably delete the page you made, as I'm not gonna use it. --Daleusher (talk) 12:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
I'm going to keep it (don't know if I'll update it often though). It's a fun museum of the weird templates people try to use. — Eru·tuon 17:55, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Museum, indeed. My favourite artefact is Template:利用者:Lemonsquash/ふりがな. I can but wonder what it is for. Daleusher (talk) 21:01, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Hey. Any chance on an update? I added your script to my common, but anything used less than 3 times is still invisible. Alexfromiowa (talk) 23:11, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
    @Alexfromiowa: Oh yeah, there you go. I can update it in two or three days as well when the next dump comes out. — Eru·tuon 19:59, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

User:Erutuon/lists/rfdate and rfdatek leaderboard update 2[edit]

Hi there. I've been chopping down the trees at User:Erutuon/lists/rfdate and rfdatek leaderboard. At the next update, can you regen this? --Java Beauty (talk) 21:35, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Sure thing. (I can update the cheap dates too, but if you edit that page between October 1 and when I update the page, this'll probably happen again, because the dump file will reflect the state of the wiki on October 1 but takes a few days to generate.) — Eru·tuon 22:13, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Sounds good. I'm also getting close to my monthyl limit. Time for me to be blocked, I'm afraid. --Java Beauty (talk) 22:14, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Swahili version of {{WOTD}}[edit]

Hi! I was asked by an editor at the Swahili Wiktionary to create a version of {{WOTD}} there, and I think I mostly managed to do it (see "sw:Kigezo:NLS"), but I can't seem to get the equivalent of {{WOTD/previous or next day}} (which is called "sw:Kigezo:NLS/siku iliyotangulia au inayofuata") to work – it is throwing an invalid time error. Any idea what's wrong? — SGconlaw (talk) 16:53, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I figured it out. It seems {{#time}} only accepts a month name in English, so I updated "sw:Kigezo:NLS" to convert the names in Swahili to English and the error disappeared. Not sure if there is a tidier way to do it. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:22, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm, I think I still need help. The "yesterday" and "tomorrow" links at "sw:Kigezo:NLS" are not displaying the year, and I'm not sure why. See the draft Main Page at "sw:Mwanzo/sandbox". The links display properly on pages with the format "sw:Wiktionary:Neno la siku/2020/Oktoba 5". — SGconlaw (talk) 18:14, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: Ahh, the template was only adding the year to the link if the word-of-the-day template with /year/month day existed. Changed so that it adds it always. — Eru·tuon 18:54, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks! (I guess we added that feature here because we have some pages that use the year and some that don’t?) — SGconlaw (talk) 18:56, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Crappy date format[edit]

Thanks for this correction. It seems that's a common mistake by the sloppier editors (i.e. Wonderfool). Could you generate yet another cleanup list of all entries with similar cases containing #* ''year''' or #*''year''? You can put it at User:Erutuon/lists/ugly dates (like your mom) --Daleusher (talk) 23:26, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Daleusher: Okay, got most of the plain years at least, though it's not the full list because there are badly formatted dates in other formats judging from this other version of the list. — Eru·tuon 08:58, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Cool stuff. I think I corrected all with too few or too many apostrophes. I suppose I might do the unapostrophed ones one day (but as they weren't WF's fuckupperies, maybe not). I guess a bot could fix all of them instead. --Daleusher (talk) 12:36, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Combination of previous cleanups[edit]

Hi. To finish off the cleanup set of dates, I was wondering if there are any templates that start by Template:RQ which contain crappy date format like in your previous list. I imagine there might be around half a dozen, judging by Wonderfool's current sloppiness rating. Any chance of whipping up another list? I can't think of a humorous name for the page, unfortunately. WT:Todo/Sloppy seconds will do. --Daleusher (talk) 13:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Lua parents[edit]

If it is not too much trouble... i was trying to make a very simple auto cat at el.wikt (an impudence, but, just for a few categories). The pagetitles are like:
Category:Title (languaname). All I need is to extract the language iso from that languagename. So, I tried at the last fucntion at el:Module:lang, applied at el:Module:yy. tested at el:Κατηγορία:Ετυμολογία (αγγλικά). Nothing works at Module.lang function name_to_iso. Something with parents and args. I will never understand what Lua wants... I have repeatedly asked for help at meta in vain. I shall write copypaste versions at my help page, hopefully not to bother you again. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 19:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

:) Thank you. Please, consider writing a Lua textbook! you are a good teacher. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 19:33, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
@sarri.greek: (edit conflict) Fixed! The error was because the function expected a frame object (the object that functionname in {{#invoke:modulename|functionname}} receives as a argument) rather than a string (language name). So I switched to the function that wants a string.
You can continue asking me questions, but perhaps a better place then Meta to ask questions is w:Wikipedia talk:Lua or w:Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), because there are quite a few module writers at Wikipedia who seem to pay attention to those pages. — Eru·tuon 19:37, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
A! @Erutuon that is great advice. I wish there were a something like Lua models for copypaste. I shall try there for support. Thanks a million, again. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 19:41, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

a few questions[edit]

Hi. I have a few questions:

  1. At one point you expressed interest in having me do a bot run over Ancient Greek non-lemma forms to merge {{inflection of}} calls, so that e.g. on ὀξεῖαι, you'd get {{inflection of|grc|ὀξῠ́ς||nom//voc|f|p}} instead of separate calls to nominative feminine plural of ὀξῠ́ς (oxús) and vocative feminine plural of ὀξῠ́ς (oxús). Are you still interested in having that done?
  2. I would like to get rid of Category:Ancient Greek common nouns. There are only two entries in there, and both of them look to actually be adjectives. Can you fix them?
  3. I would like to fix MediaWiki:Gadget-TranslationAdder-Data.js to support {{multitrans}} and {{tt}}/{{tt+}}. Conceptually it isn't hard but I haven't ever worked with Javascript much, and not at all here on Wiktionary. Can you give me a few pointers as to how you test out and debug changes to a gadget? With Lua, for example, I am used to (a) creating private copies of modules, (b) previewing changes using the "Preview page with this template" box at the bottom of the page, (c) debugging using error() as a kludgy but effective way of inserting print statements into modules. How do you do the equivalent for Javascript gadgets?

Thanks! Benwing2 (talk) 05:44, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

  1. I would like to merge {{inflection of}} instances, but ideally while doing that you'd also reorder the order of inflectional categories, and I'm not sure there's agreement on which order to use among Ancient Greek editors. Perhaps if you can merge without changing the orders?
  2. I've fixed those entries; they are indeed just adjectives that are only attested in the masculine or feminine. I've also deleted the category and made Module:grc-headword no longer support common gender, which doesn't really exist in Ancient Greek.
  3. So the trouble with editing gadgets is they have dependencies, which are automatically handled by ResourceLoader, but have to be manually loaded when you are writing a modified version of the gadget and loading it in your common.js. MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition has the dependencies of the gadget. (You can use this script to format the page and add links.) I think you can just plug the dependencies into mw.loader.using like this in your common.js:
    mw.loader.using("ext.gadget.Editor, ext.gadget.LegacyScriptsNewNode, jquery.cookie, ext.gadget.LanguageUtils, mediawiki.util, ext.gadget.TranslationAdder-Data".split(", "), function() {
    	importScript("your version of translation adder in a userpage");
    This isn't the most convenient method because it requires you to edit your copy of the gadget and save it on your user page, then reload the page where you're testing the gadget. Firefox used to let me edit the gadget in a built-in editor window, which was pretty convenient for testing gadgets, but they replaced that with a multiline editor for the JavaScript console and I haven't tried to use it yet. If you do have a convenient way to run multi-line JavaScript in your browser, you can take the snipped above and put the gadget's source in place of the importScript call and run that to update the gadget. Hope that's helpful; I haven't done serious gadget editing for a while. — Eru·tuon 22:36, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Old pages[edit]

So, I was sweeping up in the old, cold, possibly haunted, parts of Wiktionary, as I like do to every few years. I found Wiktionary talk:Entry Layout explained, which was last edited in December 24 2004 (even before Wonderfool was here). And it made me think - could you get a list like this one but for other namespaces, where nothing's been editted for ages? I guess User:Erutuon/lists/really old stuff can be the name Daleusher (talk) 23:09, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

@Daleusher: Well, here's a database query for it. Kind of annoying because it uses namespace numbers, but it has URLs. — Eru·tuon 03:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Chuvash character ҫ[edit]


Could you please add handling for the Chuvash character ҫ in the translation adder? Roman look-alike ç should be replaced with Cyrillic ҫ in translations but I can't remember, which module does it! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:08, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

E.g if a user enters "çул палли", it should insert the normalised form ҫул палли (śul palli, traffic sign). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад)
I have fixed it, now that I remembered where to fix :) --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:50, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/Undated English quote-templates[edit]

Hey, lad. Wiktionary:Todo/Undated English quote-templates needs updating at the next dump. I've run through all of them on the list, picking off the easy ones. Lots were non-durably-archived quotes which I mercilessly deleted, and some I couldn't figure out, will need to crank up my lexi-skillz once again. Cheers! Candle-holding servant (talk) 22:08, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Done but I bet you've already cleared off a lot of the ones from the October 20th dump. I'll update it after the November 1st and it'll probably be significantly shorter. (For some reason with the latest dump my program that extracts all quote templates from the XML dump is taking about 10 times as long as before. Super weird. Hah, I ran the unoptimized version of the program.) — Eru·tuon 02:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

VisualEditor and quote toggling[edit]

I'm currently adding TemplateData to a bunch of quotation templates (for Citoid) and noticed that it's not possible to edit quotes in the visual editor (they're hidden, and clicking on the toggle option in the left navigation menu doesn't do anything). Is there an easy fix for this? Perhaps the visual editor should automatically show hidden elements? – Jberkel 00:58, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

@Jberkel: I'm pretty unfamiliar with the visual editor (both as an editor and a JavaScript tinkerer), but perhaps it's because the visibility toggle JavaScript (MediaWiki:Gadget-defaultVisibilityToggles.js) fails to run at the correct time during the loading of the visual editor. If so, this might be fixable by adding the function that enables toggling in another mw.hook('some hook related to the visual editor here').add call. Or if the visibility-toggled elements are shown when the JavaScript does not run, perhaps the function could simply exclude the elements within the visual editor from visibility toggling so that they would always be displayed within the visual editor. Those are some ideas, but you should probably talk to someone who knows more about the visual editor than me before trying them out, if you'd like to pursue this. I might be persuadable to try to fix this, but I wouldn't be able to thoroughly test it because I don't edit with the visual editor. — Eru·tuon 21:59, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
I found the problem–I changed my local CSS to not hide quotes when the visual editor is active, see Special:Diff/51371908/61048492. Perhaps we could change the global MediaWiki:common.css to something like:
.client-js:not(.ve-active) .ns-0 ol>li>ul { display: none; } (not sure about the CSS and the difference between ve-active and ve-activated, basically skip this rule if the VE is active) – Jberkel 22:19, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
The other alternative would be to run the toggle code as you suggested, on mw.hook( 've.activationComplete' ).add( function () { }. (Documented here: mw:VisualEditor/Gadgets#Code_snippets). I think the CSS solution is simpler and cleaner though. – Jberkel 23:38, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Could be fun to know...[edit]

I know my requests are getting lamer every week, this one is especially boring, but still. Could you whip up a list of the users with the most subpages? I have a bet that Visviva (talkcontribs) is top and DCDuring (talkcontribs) is in the top 5. Darren X. Thorsson (talk) 22:46, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I think Darren X. Thorsson is in a tie for the fewest. DCDuring (talk) 23:27, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Apparently so because he's not on the full list, but here are the user page creation leaders. Visvisa's number 4 actually. User:Jberkel's the second because of his wanted lists. — Eru·tuon 01:01, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks as always,E. Eventually I'll be looking to delete baches of the user subpages, especially those belonging to deceased users. Interwicket, for example, is a decent candidate. My next request will be something meta, like User:Erutuon/lists/coolest requests ever. Darren X. Thorsson (talk) 01:17, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Bible update[edit]

Any chance of regenning Wiktionary:Todo/Undated Bible? Most of the actual Bible quotes have been done, so the list in more to find quotes with crappy formats. Darren X. Thorsson (talk) 00:04, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

@Darren X. Thorsson: I updated it... but there are so many more that it might not be the same script I used last time. Or maybe you just removed that many non-Bible quotes. — Eru·tuon 01:21, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Looks pretty good, boss. I'll eventually get through them, or if I don't I'll slap {{rfdatek}} on them Darren X. Thorsson (talk) 10:54, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

More crappy quotes please[edit]

I keep finding crappy quotes in various formats. Any chance you could paste the results of the hunt for things like in this old version of mure at Wiktionary:Todo/Undated or crappily formatted quotes? Returning2stadia (talk) 22:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Returning2stadia: I didn't find any other mdash- (or ndash-)marked quotations like #: — Shakespeare, Henry IV, Part II, [IV, 4], line 2870. Just searched for any #: or #* followed by a dash. Looks like that was a one-off thing. — Eru·tuon 21:12, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
How about anything else formatted like the quote from the Bowie song at freakiest? --Returning2stadia (talk) 20:45, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
@Returning2stadia: Well, here's my attempt though it doesn't yield many quotes aside from another Bowie song. Looked for the list syntax followed by italics followed by a link. It did turn up a lot of weird non-quote things that probably don't belong in the definition section. — Eru·tuon 04:59, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
Cool, I checked all of them. Returning2stadia (talk) 10:44, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Next one - any other matching the format at worst comes to worst? Returning2stadia (talk) 12:20, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
    Oof, looked up all potential quotes starting with a Wikipedia link and it's a pretty long list. (Note: while there are a lot of non-English quotes, these are only from pages that have an English section.) — Eru·tuon 21:42, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Yeah, the list was long, but a satisfying, finishable size. They're mostly done now - maybe a regen could be done after the next dump or whatever, without the Filipino surnames. Also, I came across a few quotes starting with a Wikisource link, maybe they can be added too. La más guay (talk) 01:02, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Another common thing is things like wel-begone. Sometimes the mdash is a -- too La más guay (talk) 22:59, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Spanish lemmas not idiom or proverb again[edit]

Hi. Can you get an update of Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Spanish lemmas not idiom or proverb? Again, without anything that has previously been there La más guay (talk) 09:22, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Rhyme redirects[edit]

I've moved several rhyme pages and I'd like away from the new redirects. Can you use your bot to update the mainspace pages that link to them? Here's the list:

Thanks, Ultimateria (talk) 19:54, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Please let me know if you don't plan to change these links. I apologize if I gave the impression of voluntelling you; my intention was to make the request and describe the exact task in a single message, but I can see that it comes across as presumptuous. Ultimateria (talk) 18:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
@Ultimateria: Sorry, I was willing to do it at some point, but forgot about it. I've made a list of pages and will edit them soon. — Eru·tuon 07:22, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
@Ultimateria: I tried to go about this systematically and made a log showing how most of the changes or removals of symbols in your list above could be applied to all Spanish rhymes. However, some of these are debatable or problematic changes so I will rewrite the script to just use your list. — Eru·tuon 21:59, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Okay, done at last: User:ToilBot/edit logs/2021-01/Spanish rhymes. I can quickly do any other rhyme changes now that the script is written. — Eru·tuon 22:24, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Great, thank you! I don't expect to move anymore but if I do I'll let you know. Ultimateria (talk) 23:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Templatehoard '21[edit]

Please let me know once it's available, I'd like to produce some new wanted lists. – Jberkel 15:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Jberkel: Oh yeah, forgot to do that. I've just started the first job and the second one will be done as well within 4 hours if I don't forget. — Eru·tuon 21:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Started the second job, which generally takes about 25 minutes. — Eru·tuon 21:22, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Perfect, thanks. Has anything changed how titles are handled? User:Jberkel/lists/wanted/20210101/en now contains some Appendix links (links w/ underscores). – Jberkel 23:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
@Jberkel: That is strange. I checked a few of the Appendix links and they were there on 2020-11-01 and would therefore be in the template dump, yet didn't appear in the list on that date. Those Appendix pages haven't appeared in the augmented entry index for either date. So I don't see how either the template dumps or the entry index could be causing this. Has your code changed at all since the previous lists were generated? — Eru·tuon 00:45, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
I thought it hadn't, but maybe I overlooked something, I'll check. – Jberkel 02:18, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
I checked the index file (augmented_entry_index/20210101.txt) and it's missing entries for some Appendix pages (:Animals, :Colors etc), which explains why they get included in the wanted pages. – Jberkel 21:38, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't think it does, because I searched the 2020-11-01 index and it didn't have Appendix:Countries of the world or Appendix:Colors there either. They aren't entries so they don't have a language code and can't be put in the index. — Eru·tuon 21:41, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Only links to appendix pages that start in a language name and a slash should be noticed by the wanted entries script, like Appendix:Lojban/bajbakni; others, like the previously mentioned ones, should be ignored. — Eru·tuon 21:45, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Ok that makes sense, but this logic never existed, so why didn't this happen in the previous runs? I also don't understand why some editors use forms like {{l|en|Appendix:Colors}} when there's no need for it. – Jberkel 22:52, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Fortunately, at least in American Samoa, it was an unaccounted-for condition in a script of User:MewBot. — Eru·tuon 23:14, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Blue link, target missing[edit]

Dear @Erutuon, hope 2021 will be good for you! I was wondering. When there is no lemma for a link, we get red (as in Wanted Pages. When linking to a language that has not been written in this same page yet, is there a way to mark it? perhaps with a different colour, and create a Category:Wanted lemmata? ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 00:13, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@sarri.greek: To color for instance a link to the Greek section on a page that only has an Ancient Greek section, you can install the OrangeLinks gadget in the gadgets tab of your preferences. There isn't a way to create a category because it would be expensive for link templates to get the wikitext of the page and check for a language section and add a category, but User:Jberkel/lists/wanted/latest provides lists made by analyzing templates in the dump. It includes both nonexistent pages and pages that don't have a section for the language. — Eru·tuon 18:34, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
So, would it expensive to look in one page? -Ι was thinking for el.wikt, where we have only 2 modules with this linking- something like
if {{xx}} lookinthepage [[theword]] == nil, then write {{l|xx|theword|font color:orange theword}} &  write at page [[theword]] [[Category:Wanted lemmata (xx)]]
else do as usual
:) sorry for the naive question. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 07:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@sarri.greek: It depends how many links are on the page. It will not be too expensive if there are only a few linking templates on the page. You could try it and see if it causes Lua memory errors in larger pages. It is only too expensive here because some pages (particularly pages with lots of links, in translations and derived terms and inflection tables) are already running into the Lua memory limit even without checking whether linked-to entries exist, and others are close behind them. There might be fewer links per page in Greek Wiktionary entries. — Eru·tuon 09:56, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Related discussion[edit]

  • @Erutuon, sorry for intruding here, but I had one asking: I have enabled OrangeLinks in my Preferences, but I edit using mobile & therefor cannot see orange links. Have I no way to have them? Thank you. -- inqilābī inqilāb·zinda·bād 12:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
    @Inqilābī: MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition doesn't enable OrangeLinks on mobile. I'm not convinced it should be run on mobile by default; it loads the lists of categories for all entries linked from the current page, which could use too much memory and CPU on some mobile devices. But you can enable it for yourself by pasting the following code to your common.js:
    mw.loader.using(["mediawiki.Uri", "mediawiki.Title", "mediawiki.util"], function () {
    }).then(function() { console.log("Manually loaded OrangeLinks") }, function() { console.log("Failed to manually load OrangeLinks") });
    This just manually replicates what the MediaWiki server does to load the OrangeLinks gadget when it is enabled in preferences. (This will run the gadget only once if you have the gadget enabled in preferences and visit the desktop site.) Then if you visit a page with many entry links, you can see how it performs on your device and decide whether to keep it. — Eru·tuon 01:26, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
    @Erutuon: Thanks for all the explanation! So, do you mean that OrangeLinks is going to work only in the desktop view? Actually I can already see orange links when I switch over to the desktop view, but editing in the desktop view is cumbersome, that is why I prefer editing in the mobile view. So basically it’s a forlorn hope for me, right? (Also I know nothing about programming, so until I learn ’bout those stuffs, your technical suggestions would be of no help to me.) But again thanks anyway. -- inqilābī inqilāb·zinda·bād 11:30, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
    @Inqilābī: Yes, the only way to enable OrangeLinks is to add the code as described above. I have no plans to get the gadget in preferences to work on mobile. — Eru·tuon 18:46, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Page history showing blocked user name[edit]

Hello, Erutuon. Thank you for rapidly taking care of recent troll edits. On the page history for Jewish Question, a removed user name is still visible in a description of my edit undoing that editor's contribution. I don't know if you want to remove my edit from the history or something, but whatever is necessary is fine with me. Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 03:47, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Triggering |alts=[edit]

Hello. {{alt}} was created lately as a shortcut of {{alter}}. I have noticed that |alts= (used in {{desc}}) does not work when {{alt}} is used in the lemma entry instead of {{alter}}. Could you please fix the problem? Thanks in advance! -- inqilābī inqilāb·zinda·bād 12:25, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Inqilābī: Hopefully done. — Eru·tuon 00:53, 7 April 2021 (UTC)