User talk:Saltmarsh

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άλσος etymology[edit]

Hi Saltmarsh. Re this, surely the derivation is only unknown before the Ancient Greek ἄλσος ‎(álsos, grove)…? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 22:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes - I had been thinking this through overnight and it was my first port of call this morning. Thanks   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 05:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to you for answering the {{rfe}}. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:05, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requests for verification#‎ἀφαιρετική[edit]

This one revolves around the credibility of the 1770 source given by the IP who added this sense. I suspect it might be (early) Modern Greek in polytonic script rather than Ancient Greek, as claimed. Your input would be most welcome. Chuck Entz (talk) 07:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)


I am not so sure how to answer (and if I have a real answer...). But οφείλω (as well as homonym χρωστώ) does not have a perfective form since its sense is somehow continuous. (Or someone can say the exact opposite, that sense is once done, but no one can think it with both senses...).
"εξεγείρω" can have continuous and non continuous senses: "εξήγειρα once" someone, and "εξήγειρα continuously, every day". --Xoristzatziki (talk) 07:26, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

@Xoristzatziki Thanks for that - that explains the difference exactly - cheers   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 11:56, 20 March 2015 (UTC)


Hi Saltmarsh. An anon. nominated for speedy deletion επίμονως ‎(epímonos), which you created. I rolled back his change, but I note that the lemma, επίμονα ‎(epímona), lists επιμόνως ‎(epimónos) as a variant spelling. Which placing of the tonos is correct? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 16:41, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

επιμόνως ‎(epimónos) is correct. --Fsojic (talk) 20:54, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
@Fsojic: Thanks. I've moved the entry. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:08, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

full stops[edit]

Like here, dictionary definitions are typically fragments and not normally followed by a full stop. --JorisvS (talk) 07:48, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree - I clicked "undo" by mistake, and then got sidetracked in my 2nd edit and forgot to put things right!   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 04:40, 10 July 2015 (UTC)


Sorry about that. My guesses are wrong sometimes! :-S  — I.S.M.E.T.A. 12:38, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't think you were a thousand miles away - it probably is a reborrowing, but I haven't seen any evidence   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 05:29, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
Well, thanks for the correction. It's funny how many Modern Greek words derive from French. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 15:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


Since Katharevousa is an artificial language distinction between her and spoken Greek language is not so clear (there was also a simple Katharevousa [1]).The usage of her in official papers "planted" many phrases in everyday language so many of them are still in use. All school books (including grammatic) until 1976 were written in Katharevousa. Many people still use Katharevousa's terms (like adding ν at the end of nouns in accusative or like genitive θαλάσσης instead of θάλασσας) which are clearly understood but not used wide. So there may be problems in distinguish them (if there is such need). --Xoristzatziki (talk) 05:50, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you - I read something recently which I could précis as: modern Greek was slowly emerging from Demotic and Katharevousa - with Demotic the senior partner. When I asked my Greek teacher why she might use one form one day and another form the next, she wasn't sure why - one just sounded better.   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 05:22, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Genitive plural of κωλοτούμπα/κολοτούμπα[edit]

You have indicated that these words have no genitive in their plurals by using template {{el-nF-α-ες-3a1}}. However, a Google search finds quite a few hits on κωλοτούμπων/κολοτούμπων.  --Lambiam 23:13, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

My Greek dictionary says it lacks a genitive plural and I guess that to a Greek its use just doesn't sound right. My Google counts are κωλοτούμπα (371k), κωλοτούμπας (129k), κωλοτούμπες (260k), κωλοτούμπων (321), κωλοτουμπών (576). Since the frequency is about 1/1000 of the other forms I'd say the dictionary has got it right - these are on the internet and many will be informal and hence sometimes ungrammatical. I suspect that in the printed word the forms would not meet our criteria for inclusion.
When frequencies of such forms raise them above the "very rare" I sometimes leave the table blank but add them as a footnote at the bottom of the table "The form 'ξξξξξξων' is rare" or if they are quite "common" I might include them in the table with a footnote saying "Some grammarians consider the genitive plural ungrammatical.".   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 05:04, 9 September 2015 (UTC)


Hi Saltmarsh. Thanks for fixing my headwords! Is the dative of the place name Βόλος ‎(Vólos, Volos) Βόλῳ ‎(Vólῳ)? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 11:37, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Modern Greek doesn't have a dative - except in a few historical/idiomatic phrases. I wouldn't know about Ancient Greek declensions!   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 14:51, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, OK. I have a PDF of a 1909 book by Apostolos S. Arvanitopoulos entitled Θεσσαλικὰ μνημεῖα. Ἀθανασάκειον Μουσεῖον ἐν Βόλῳ, which I interpret to mean Thessalian monuments: Athanassakean Museum in Volos; am I correct? Is that Katharevousa? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 20:28, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Yes - but @Xoristzatziki would be able to answer definitively   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 20:34, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

"Βόλῳ" is definiteley a Katharevousa form. Modern Greek does not have "υπογεγραμμένη" (but some people still use older orthography in their publications, even in words non existent in Katharevousa). In modern Greek someone can only use "Βόλω" in a historical/idiomatic phrase. --Xoristzatziki (talk) 06:47, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Xoristzatziki. How, may I ask, would you translate "Θεσσαλικὰ μνημεῖα. Ἀθανασάκειον Μουσεῖον ἐν Βόλῳ" and "μέρος πρῶτον: ἡ σημασία τῶν γραπτῶν στηλῶν τῶν Παγασῶν καὶ σύντομος ἱστορία τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς ζῳγραφικῆς"? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


Just a heads-up that this template is transliterating things twice; I didn't check why, but this should certainly be foxed. Cheers! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:39, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks - the template had been updated without removing the manual translit - sorted.   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 10:40, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

παίρνω πίπα[edit]

Hi! I'm not sure I agree with your replacing of the header verb with phrase. phrase doesn't say much, IMHO; and syntactically speaking, this is still a verb, don't you think? --Fsojic (talk) 12:42, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure that I agree with you, to my mind a "verbal phrase" but still a phrase. But I guess that Wiktionary's "house style" agrees with you. So I've changed it, but note you'll need to use the {{head}} template - {{el-verb}} will throw errors!   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 19:16, 15 November 2015 (UTC)



sorry to bother you again, but since I've the - possibly unwelcome - habit of removing the template DEFAULTSORT when I see it in old entries, and at the same time I see you keep using it (as in ακμαίος ‎(akmaíos)), I wonder what purpose it serves, and what we should do about it. --Fsojic (talk) 13:32, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No bother! I'm not consistant - I tend to use it when the accent is early in the word - not good! I think that the "part-of-speech" category sorting is organised from the headword line template, other categories by DEFAULTSORT. You could try asking at WT:GP. (I'm short of time at present)   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 21:18, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Categories that are placed directly in the entry don't use the automatic sort key generation, while categories that are included by templates do (or should be modified to do). If you want to include, say, topical categories, you can use the {{topics}} template. —CodeCat 21:28, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks CC.   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 06:47, 26 November 2015 (UTC)