User talk:Sarri.greek

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2019[edit]

Happy New Year. sarri.greek (talk) 09:35, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

βγάζω[edit]

There is a problem with en-el/el-en dictionaries — they are intended for Greeks learning english - helpful notes are nearly always in Greek! Does "μετοχή παθητικού παρακειμένου" mean that the active shares the participle of a non-existant passive? That is from my Oxford Greek Learner's D. Do you think this verb has a passive? Neither Jiordi nor DMSG show it, but Bambi has the simple past (like βάζω I guess).

Thanks for any help — Saltmarsh. 10:50, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
@Saltmarsh, I did βάζω, βγάζω, and the correspoinding βγαίνωwith temporary manual conjug. I hope that Category:Greek verbs conjugating like 'βάζω' will be okperhaps 'βγάζω' would be better, because I did not study very well the following which are not the same conjug-style, but they are related in sense:
sarri.greek (talk) 05:41, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you so much, perhaps I should concentrate on the regular verbs - there are plenty of them! Thanks agian — Saltmarsh. 05:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

πηδάω[edit]

I'm sorry Sarri I am going to have to leave this until tomorrow - I'll try to get onto it first thing — Saltmarsh. 12:32, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

transhumance[edit]

Do you have a Greek word (or is it periphrastic) for transhumance (the seasonal migration in pastoral societies of sheep etc between lowland and upland areas). I am sure that P Leigh Fermor & Kevin Andrews talked of it in Greece 50-60 years ago. Do you know if an Greek societies still do it? — Saltmarsh. 07:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

O dear, @Saltmarsh I can remember vaguely some words from the στάνη I once visited, and there are some sites on the χειμαδιό and τσοπάνης. There could be many local idiomatic words Leucas Α general verb might be ξεχειμωνιάζω. Give some time to do some searching :) beeeee sarri.greek (talk) 08:07, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Dialects: I find ξεχειμάζω, no general word for any nomadic move. Links, just for the record:

>>Do they still do it?<< Well, I have heard that small herds are moved around, yes. But the life of nomadic societies (as a large group) is long gone (only the gypsies tend to still do it -and not all-. The Vlachs and Sarakatsani have permanent residences, and live like everyone else. They meet once a year or so and have their 'Societies', sing their songs, etc. It is a bit of folklore. Kevin Andrews, our Αντρίκος, would be a little disappointed... sarri.greek (talk) 09:50, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Sorry I missed this (no ping!) it looks very interesting - and thank you for all the research!
  • {{el-conjug-2nd-A-άω-ώ}} now has "no-a-present" etc — I have to update the docs, and apply the changes to the other templates
Saltmarsh. 07:13, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

αναθέτομαι[edit]

I'm sorry, it must appear that I am out to contradict you, but I had to look to try and find where I might have got "αναθέτομαι" from in the first place. This seems the probable source. — Saltmarsh. 05:51, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, yes, I saw it, a moment after i wrote the first 'delete'. That is why i changed it immediately to colloquial (προφ). misconstruction as in DSMG (rarely does he mention such forms). And Georgakas has it too! He has 'αναθέτεται'!! which is a classic misconstruction. People think: θέτω-θέτομαι... But it is θέτω-τίθεμαι.
There is also another one: 3pl.pres. 'ανατίθονται' instead of ανατίθενται. I did not make a page for it, but it is in my list of frequent misconstructions when I will do the 'θέτω' group. And there is 'ανατίθω' and 'τίθω' too: People think: τίθεμαι is from *τίθω. I just think they should not enter the index of the Category:Greek verbs, but only the Cat:misconstructions. All these, because their grandfather τίθημι has always been irregular.
I checked the Cat:misspellings and misconstructions, and most of them are true, frequent mistakes. (I was doing κώλυσα-κόλλησα at the time). Some were not: they were just accidental. sarri.greek (talk) 09:15, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

affixes[edit]

I' ve been doing some prefixes and interfixes (κατα-, Category:Greek words prefixed with κατα-, and some others. The variation-categories: κατά- κατ-, κάτ- καθ- and so on, are soooo many. @Saltmarsh, Rossyxan do you think this is ok? The ancients are putting them allll in one Category, whatever the version. On the other hand, a reader would like to look up the Category:Greek words by prefix and find all the possible variations. Perhaps κατα- and καθ- are not so obviously 'similar' to them. Salt, Ι just need a confirmation, before I do συν-. sarri.greek (talk) 10:51, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Comment on the interfix categories like Greek words interfixed with -ανα-: unfortunately this is not what an interfix is. An interfix is a meaningless little connecter that is inserted between two morphemes, like English -o-, Russian -о- (-o-), or German -s-. All of the currently listed interfixes should be converted to prefixes: {{af|el|επι-|-ανα-|λαμβάνω}}{{af|el|επι-|ανα-|λαμβάνω}}. These are just cases where more than one prefix is piled onto a base morpheme. — Eru·tuon 02:20, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Ouch, ok. Of course I ll put them together with prefixes (after all, the do precede something). Thank you Erutuon. Byyyy the way: I have found this weird ἔφραξα] which I know as aorist of φράσσω, but NOT of φράζω. Annnd I have done my lesson2! --sarri.greek (talk) 02:30, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Erutuon, Yes check.svg Done you may delete all the wrong Cats from Category:Greek words by interfix, and I have cleaned up Category:Greek interfixes. I understand what you mean by interfix. I have read some definitions for the greek term ένθημα. It seems there is a 'traditional' and a broader definition. They speak of 'any element' by position, and then, they characterize them, by their role. Which is different from 'interfix' or 'infix'. But you are right, they are just prepositions piled up. --sarri.greek (talk) 03:55, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
An admin will have to handle deleting those pages. The example of ένθημα on Greek Wiktionary looks like what we call an infix: λαβ + <μ> + -ανλαμβαν. (Infixes are often notated with angle-brackety things.) See nasal infix for more on this particular Indo-European example. — Eru·tuon 06:17, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Yes, dear @Erutuon, I am thankful you told me, because I do not wish to make silly mistakes at el.witkionary. We are ~6 editors, none linguist, one prof of Greek and 10 vandals per minute.
Whattt do you mean, you cannot delete pages?! with all the work you are doing on thousands of modules? ohh. --sarri.greek (talk) 06:34, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Back from my "holiday" and slowly reorienting myself. I've deleted those interfix cats (@Erutuon would infix be an incorrect term?) — Saltmarsh. 06:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
OOOooooo hello boss! I missed you @Saltmarsh! When you have time, please check double ppps at {{el-conjug-1st}} at αγγίζω, στραγγίζω, αποστάζω. Your sarri.greek (talk) 07:03, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Infix is the correct term for something that is inserted inside a morpheme, like μ in λαμβάνω, but not for the prefixes that we were discussing above. I'd guess there probably aren't many, if any, infixes in Greek. — Eru·tuon 07:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks @Erutuon — I'm not a linguist so I looked up infix: "To insert a morpheme inside an existing word." Morpheme: "The smallest linguistic unit within a word that can carry a meaning, such as "un-", "break", and "-able" in the word "unbreakable"." Sorry just trying to clarify in my own mind NOT start an argument :) — Saltmarsh. 06:53, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Ω @Erutuon! I found one (which i have written but did NOT remember) at πομφόλυξ. Is the λ an interfix. Thanks again. sarri.greek (talk) 07:16, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

ανασκουμπώνομαι[edit]

Good morning comrade. Perhaps you can help with this verb which Bambi categorises as deponent. Others including my Oxford el/en dictionary and Kriara here give active forms. Please can you spread any light? — Saltmarsh. 07:20, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Saltmarsh I use it as deponent too, but i see (especially in older dicts) the transtive sense too: I button-off (e.g. my shirt) in order to do some work. So we have
  • Babi and Iord -ομαι (Iord has a note: it is usually used in passive sense
  • DSMG, Georgakas and Dimitrakos (all older dictionaries that Bab and Iord) have -ώνω too.
  • the mediaeval is ανασκομπώνω at Kriaras
Obviously, it tends to become deponent as time goes by. I would have lemma and conjugation for the whole verb, with comment at def and table active forms: less common or chiefly used as a deponent. And i would add all the above sources for the 'disbelievers'. Would you like me to do it? sarri.greek (talk) 16:11, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

sources[edit]

(Speaking of the rare from ανασκουμπώνω) @Saltmarsh rare words, or forms of words, to me, are (o well, the ones I do not know), the ones which cannot be found in DSMG or Babiniotis. It means, they are either older than Standard Modern Greek, or they are rare in general. For some of the lemmata, a reader would doubt the correctness. Could we start a 'practice' of including sources? e.g. ανασκόπω, I cannot find. I know ανασκοπώ (a little rare), I know ανακόπτω. Also for words like: αγκριώνω(!) ανασπάζομαι(priests use this one) ανάβλεμμα ανάμεσος(not common) αγνίζω(usually εξαγνίζω) αγνισμός αλληλοπαντρεύομαι αμαλγαμώνω αμπώχνω(waw) αμφίψωμο(!!) αναγελώ αναγέλασμα ανθρωπομορφίζω αναγάλλια etc. I understand, or i can guess what they mean. But I would like so much to have a source. It takes so long to find them (usually they can be found at Template:R:Dimitrakos 1964 who has allll the older words and of course at your excellent Britannica (which unfortunately I do not have). The thorough online Georgakas has only A, so we cannot have a template for it :(. sarri.greek (talk) 17:03, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

I have added some refs to ανασκόπω - I will add refs, although I cannot guarantee to be thorough! — Saltmarsh. 20:19, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
It's ok, I just meant it as a general practice. No need to go back and add sources. @Saltmarsh, are you suuuure it is not ανασκοπώ. sarri.greek (talk) 20:25, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Thank you again - F says I never read anything properly — Saltmarsh. 20:38, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

φωνή[edit]

Hope you don't mind me changing the format using {{rel2}} (rel3 and rel4 are available), I thing the output slightly neater. I am never sure how many terms these lists should contain, except perhaps terms like "sax player" could be moved to "sax" — BUT it's all a matter of taste !! — Saltmarsh. 06:21, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't know either @Saltmarsh, and of course I don't mind. Yes, the groups can be limited to one basic word. On the other hand, α...ω makes the index full. But it is tooo big.
That new style of rel3 ufffff i hate it! we lost the Hide/Show thing. Why did they ruin it? sarri.greek (talk) 06:30, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
Again a matter of taste, I'll change it back if you like. I feel that seeing just a few is good. They do have the advantage that they sort the list into α/ω order automatically. — Saltmarsh. 06:33, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
OOookkk @Saltmarsh I am a creature of habit. sarri.greek (talk) 06:35, 24 March 2019 (UTC)