User talk:Saltmarsh/Archive 5

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Archive for 2011[edit]

New format[edit]

I know you're still working on it, but I noticed the {{{pio}}} that comes up automatically (looking at ελεύθερος). If that's something that's optional, maybe you'd like to change it to {{{pio|}}} in the coding so that something only shows up there if it's called specifically? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:38, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks - they will disappear within 30 minutes —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:39, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Alrighty, just checkin' up. :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:52, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Maria Asumpta Memorial, St Enodoc's Church, Trebetherick[edit]

Hi, I found you via Commons. I noticed that you took at least one of the photos of St Enodoc's, and wondered whether you would be able to take a photo of the memorial in the church to the three victims of the Maria Asumpta wreck in 1995. Please answer either at my Commons talk page or on my en-Wiki talk page. Mjroots 18:20, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, I'll give the Cornwall Wikiproject a shout on en-Wiki. Mjroots 19:39, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


αντίτυπο (one copy, one reproduction) is definitely not a synonym for έκδοση (which is the issue of a magazine, the filling, the signing of a bank check). Maybe my mistake but I think that one of the meanings is issue or to issue (η έκδοση μιας επιταγής is the issue of a check, to issue a check...). --Xoristzatziki 07:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

OK - έκδοση is definitely (?) one edition (but probably many copies) of a book/magazine (eg Γ' Έκδοση). But αντίτυπο should be "I bought a copy of my newspaper this morning." (is "Αγόρασα ένα αντίτυπο της εφημερίδας μου σήμερα το πρωί." a correct example;) I have changed the entries in line with this - please point out any furrther errors. Thanks. —Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:35, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I've also put some related terms - please correct as necessary :) —Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:56, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Declension tables[edit]

Hello there. Perhaps the blank spaces at the left top corner in the noun and adjective declension tables could be filled with the colour next to them (RGB 208,208,208)? Thanks in advance. Eipnvn 20:32, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

A bit of a fine judgement - and I had thought about it. I have changed it. An isolated table (without Declension of .... show/hide at the top) looks better with a "white" lop left hand corner. But I think your right, once you have that long white box at the top of the table. —Saltmarshαπάντηση 15:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


Just so you know, another way to do links at the top of the page is {{also|Πέμπτες}}. No, it's not the easiest to type, but it does allow you to get {{Grek}} in there. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:28, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks - I try to use it. It doesnt matter quite so much with Greek since it only sharesa a script with Ancient Greek :) —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


How would you feel if I moved this to {{etyl:Koine}} and formatted it like {{etyl:Old Northern French}}? There may be other languages which have Koine Greek derivations. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

That would be excellent - since there is no ISO-code (I think) for Koine - I assumed that this would not be possible! cheers —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 16:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)


Do you have any input on the Ancient Greek? We don't have a Modern Greek equivalent, but we do have aftochthon. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I dont have any Ancient Greek - and steer clear of entries unless I can find them in my school Greek dictionary. Mondern Greek has ετερόχθων (not living in the place of one's ancestors), αυτόχθων (living in the place of one's ancestors) - I schall see if I can find an αλλόχθωνSaltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 14:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC) only has 13x αλλόχθων - I suspect that the ετερό- form is more or less equivalent. I think both can act as nouns and adjectives. —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 14:50, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Double accented characters[edit]

I am sorry I haven't seen your message on GP earlier. Try this: right Alt + accent, then ι. It gives ΐ. --flyax 17:39, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Superb - thanks - I did once discover it in the past (monkeys and typewriters come to mind) but use it so infrequently that it got forgotten. —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 18:00, 13 April 2011 (UTC)


Hello. I'm planning a massive import of adjective forms, so I examine what there has already been done. I saw γέρος and I must say I've never seen any feminine or neuter forms. Actually this word is a noun which has been used as an adjective. It has comparative and superlative forms, but no other genders. Could you please fix (or completely remove, that's easier) the declension template for the adjective and delete γέρη, γέρης, γέρες, γέρα ? We could also move them to γερή, γερής, γερές, γερά which are forms of γερός (strong, sound, robust). --flyax 19:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I hope you don't find too many of these. I invested in a Bambiniotis a couple of months ago and (if I remember to check) this may help me avoid such errors! —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 06:02, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. γεροντότερος has a full declension though (feminine and neuter do exist). Sorry for not being very clear about that. I think that this word merits its own entry. What is your opinion? --flyax 07:09, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
I have put the table under γέρος for the time being - you say an entry on its own? Is this because it has a life of its own - like some English comparatives (eg elder)? Can it be a noun? Or to prevent confusion by the masculine only note? —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 08:45, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
No it is not a noun. Just to avoid confusion. And, I just remembered, there is a similar situation with the feminine noun γριά which can very well be an adjective and its comparative is πιο γριά and γεροντότερη. --flyax 09:36, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
would you mind looking at γριά and making any changes you think necessary? thanks —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 10:30, 18 April 2011 (UTC)


Hello again. First of all I'd like to apologize for my yesterday incompetence to give you a straight and comprehensive answer. Please see again my answer on my discussion page. Αs regards ανθρακικός, the entry is wrong, as its content is reflecting now the meaning and synonyms of the word ανθρακούχος, in its use for beverages (carbonated soft drink = ανθρακούχο αναψυκτικό). Ανθρακικός is translated as carbonic / carbonate (ανθρακικό οξύ: carbonic acid, ανθρακικό νάτριο: sodium carbonate). --flyax 07:27, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

You say "the entry is wrong" do you mean Wiktionary or my dictionary? Bambiniotis (if I have translated properly) gives for ανθρακούχος (1) containing carbon (2) coal bearing (rock).
Either way you should feel free to edit my entries :) —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 13:24, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
And would χωρίς ανθρακικό(ς) be correct for "still" or "not fizzy"? —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 13:29, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry for the delay. I should have seen this message earlier. As regards ανθρακούχος, google for "ανθρακούχο νερό and ανθρακούχα αναψυκτικά. Here are two pages: (a) [1] (b) ανθρακούχα νερά χωρίζονται ... με τεχνητή προσθήκη διοξειδίου του άνθρακα... . Μια πορτοκαλάδα χωρίς ανθρακικό: a non carbonated orange drink; ανθρακικό is a noun here. --flyax 06:59, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
thanks —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 16:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Greek adjectives without el-adj template[edit]

Here I started a list of known problems. Feel free to add or remove whatever occurs to you. --flyax 07:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll go through them over the next week or so —Saltmarshtalk-συζήτηση 10:03, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


Hello. The entry διευθυντρής is misspelled but the correct διευθυντής exists. Could you do something? --flyax 11:29, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

hey tharrr[edit]

I've added some stuff to ναυαγοσώστης, but it needs an inflection template. Do you think you could add it? — [Ric Laurent] — 14:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


Hello, I opened a voting to have bot flag. I hope you particibate. Thanks.--M.Gedawy 19:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Nouns and proper nouns[edit]

Hey, I've started a discussion in the Beer Parlor. I'd really like to know the community views on this. Any additional input would be great. Thanks. – Krun 14:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Archive for 2012[edit]

Baklahorani song transcription[edit]

Hi, Salt. Have you heard of Baklahorani, a recently revived carnival from Istanbul? I've first heard of it from the Wikipedia article on it. I also came across this song, which is in Greek before 2:45 and in (mostly) Turkish after that. I spread the word about it at Wikitravel because I want the website to know about it. One fellow Wikitraveller, Vidimian, had so kindly made a translation of the Turkish part when I asked for it. Now I'm asking whether you're able to transcribe and translate the Greek lyrics of it. If not, I could try someone else who's good at Greek. --Lo Ximiendo 06:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Looks interesting - I'll have a look and give you an answer later when I've sized it up. Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
How about I show it to the native Greek speakers here? Thanks for your reply and promise. --Lo Ximiendo 07:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I have a hearing deficiency - I have a problem with spoken Greek and now that I've listened, transcribing singing is impossible! Sorry - but thanks for asking. Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:17, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
That's okay. I'll try asking others about this. --Lo Ximiendo 07:20, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Flyax provided the translation of the Greek lyrics. Would you like to train yourself by listening to the sung Greek and looking at the Greek lyrics at the same time? --Lo Ximiendo 19:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
The state of my hearing probably makes me untrainable but I would certainly give it a go! Saltmarshαπάντηση 06:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Greek question[edit]

Hi there. I'm trying to find a meaning of the taxonomic epithet syrichta. There is some evidence that it comes from a Greek word meaning screeching. The closest that I can find here is σῦριγξ. Any ideas? SemperBlotto 11:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Just a quick look - (User talk:Flyax may be a better bet!)
Modern Greek:
My Victorian etymological dictionary says that συρ- is a base for "perforated" Saltmarshαπάντηση 10:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


Is the first part supposed to be in Latin script? Ultimateria (talk) 18:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

No! Thanks for spotting it. — Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:45, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:Greek declension-table templates[edit]

Do you think you could move the templates there that are for nouns to the new category Category:Greek noun inflection-table templates? I realise there are a lot so it would probably take a while. I could do it with a bot instead if you could give me a list of all the templates there that are for nouns. —CodeCat 20:00, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

There seem to be 126 of them - listed at User:Saltmarsh/Sandbox3#Greek noun inflection-table template. It would be good if you could use a bot to change them. — Saltmarshαπάντηση 04:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I've moved all the noun inflection templates, and moved all the other templates in Category:Greek declension-table templates to Category:Greek inflection-table templates and then deleted the old category. —CodeCat 12:34, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

My el wikisource page[edit]

I recently created a userpage on the Greek wikisource, as I've started being active there. I wrote it in English and in Greek, but the Greek version is just a slightly cleaned up version of what Google Translate gave me. Would you have a moment to take a look and make sure it's intelligible? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to be unhelpful about this - given 10 minutes I could translate your text - but I would not spot any of the errors I make when I translate into Greek. If you want to make sure that it free of grammatical mistakes I suggest that you try Eipnvn, Flyax or Xoristzatziki. with apologies — Saltmarshαπάντηση 04:44, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
An honest answer is always preferable to any other (with the singular exception of "Does this make my butt look big?"). I'll give Flyax a shout. Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 07:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)


Hello! εμφιαλομένος is not an alternative spelling of εμφιαλωμένος, it's just a wrong spelling, not particularly common. --flyax (talk) 19:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting this. I came across εμφιαλομένο and this led me back to its (now deleted) lemma εμφιαλομένος. I've left the former in as a (perhaps not so common) misspelling of εμφιαλωμένο. Does this represent the situation more truly? — Saltmarshαπάντηση 19:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Verbs in -ώνω]]/-ώνομαι are spelled with ω and so are their participles in -ωμένος. Teachers in schools insist in that rule, nevertheless misspellings do exist. I don't know if this error is more common in εμφιαλωμένος than in other similar participles (eg πληρωμένος, ολοκληρωμένος etc) but I think of it as something it occurs in a whole category of words and has a systematic nature. Anyway, since the entry says that we have here a wrong spelling and not an alternative one, I think we are OK. --flyax (talk) 10:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

g=gender parameters in t-template[edit]

Hi Saltmarsh,

it seems that you set the gender of translations via g=gender parameters in the t-template calls. This parameter is unsupported. You should add them as unnamed parameters (3,4) instead. Matthias Buchmeier (talk) 09:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - I suspect that I use "with" and "without" "g=" (usually without). "With" is a habit brought over from using {{l}}. I'll try to remember :) — Saltmarshαπάντηση 09:30, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Verb inflected forms[edit]

Please, have a look at χάιδεψε, χαϊδέψω, χαϊδέψει. I'm going to import by bot a number of similar entries, so I'd like to know if you have any remarks or objections. Regards, flyax (talk) 08:09, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I've made some changes to these pages (I had misunderstood the meaning of the term dependent). I still don't know whether we should use the term aorist infinitive or non-finite verb form. I know that the term infinitive is not accurate but some would say that the gerunds in -οντας are non-finite forms too. Any thoughts? --flyax (talk) 21:44, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
This all looks fine to me. I think I prefer aorist infinitive, it sounds more concrete than non-finite verb form. But I have to say that points about grammar (and advanced maths) make excellent sense to me when read or explained - however it all seems to have gone by the following morning! — Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for creating παμψυχία. I was surprised to learn that it derives from the French panpsychisme. N.b. that, since the derivation you gave for the French term didn't match what the Trésor has, I took out the part of the etymology that goes beyond the first out-of-language etymon. Παμψυχία's derivation from the Ancient Greek ψυχή is most indirect! I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 16:45, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Both Πύλη and Babiniotis give the French derivation from panpsychisme - I relied on fr:w:Panpsychisme for that term's etym — Saltmarshαπάντηση 18:42, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I can understand your thinking, certainly; however, that Πύλη page is about παμψυχισμός (pampsychismós), not παμψυχία. If παμψυχία does indeed derive from French, an etymon like *pam- / *panpsychie would be expected (both of which seem to be attestable). Do you know of a source that has an entry for παμψυχία (rather than for παμψυχισμός)? Or is it too rare? Assuming no appeal to authority, do you think that French derivation for παμψυχία is likely? Or is some other source — perhaps the Latin pampsychia — a more likely candidate? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 22:53, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I have probably ventured beyond my competence and have now deleted the doubtful word and created παμψυχισμός (pampsychismós) which is attested! — Saltmarshαπάντηση 04:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
OK. I added the uses of παμψυχία and παμψυχίας (pampsychías) that I could find and which seemed to mean something to Citations:παμψυχία. I'm not sure how many of them count as "use[s] in permanently recorded media", but the uses in the 2007? quotation and the 2010 doctoral thesis (the one by Elena Sartori), being formally assessed academic work, both look promising (though n.b. that the relevant part of the latter quotation is quoting the journal Το 3º Μάτι (= "The 3rd Eye"?), which probably dates from 1935–1937*). They can serve as the basis for an entry for παμψυχία, in the event that it is resurrected at any point in the future. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 14:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
* [edit] + The footnoted reference for the quotation reads: "Νίκος Χατζηκυριάκος-Γκίκας, «Περί αναλογίας», Ο Κύκλος, αρ. 1, χρ. Γ, Αθήνα, Γενάρης 1935, σ. 14–15." I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 14:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I've recast the 2010 quotation of that doctoral thesis as a quotation from 1935. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 14:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I would have a problem getting my head around those citations if they were in English - let alone Greek. I am uncertain what the translation of παμψυχία would be. I have assumed parallels as with the pairs anarchy/anarchism-αναρχία/αναρχισμός (and panarchy/panarchism) — Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:29, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
That's a good instinct. I'll see what I can find for the English pam-, pan·psych·y, -ia and then get back to you. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 12:59, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I found nothing that helps. The only use of any of the forms of pam-, pan·psych·y, -ia I could find that doesn't refer to the third part of Patrizi's 1591 Latin work was an idiosyncratic use from the anonymously authored 1854 work The Apocatastasis; or Progress Backwards, in which panpsychia is the plural of panpsychion, used seemingly to mean "a shrine dedicated to all spirits, as a locus for invocation" (see Citations:panpsychion for this hapax legomenon).
I've added the relevant quotations, in abbreviated form, to παμψυχία. Could you try your hand at translating them, please? My presumption is that they all use παμψυχία in a sense equivalent to παμψυχισμός, but I can't tell for sure without a better understanding of what the quotations say. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 15:49, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
The two translations you've added so far (and for which I thank you) give context consitent with taking παμψυχία to mean "panpsychism", but are also consistent with taking it to refer to the doctrine of the world soul; however, the fact that you've translated υλοζωία (in the 2010 quotation) as "hylozoism" adds further plausibility to the former of the two interpretations of παμψυχία that are available. (I've created entries for υλοζωία (ylozoía) and υλοζωισμός (ylozoismós), relying on your translation, the Greek Wiktionary, Πύλη, and inferences from παμψυχία (pampsychía) and παμψυχισμός (pampsychismós); could you verify that the information I've provided is accurate, please? Also, are you sure that παμψυχία is a masculine, rather than a feminine, noun?) Are you able to tell from any of those quotations whether they refer to any specific doctrine or thinker? — That could help to decide whether they mean "panpsychism" or "[the doctrine of the] world soul" by their uses of παμψυχία. In the meantime, with the evidence tending to support such an interpretation, I shall go ahead and change the definition line for παμψυχία to "panpsychism" and add it as a synonym to παμψυχισμός. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 17:21, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
I've just finished some work on panpsychism to correct, clarify, and improve the entry. The information I've provided may help to elucidate the fine doctrinal distinctions involved here. :-) I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 18:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)