User talk:Octahedron80

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Dear Octahedron80[edit]

I would like to thank you and ask you about some things. First off: thank you for your edits on the indices of the Chinese radicals. I had planned to add the characters from cjk unified ideographs b-e to all of them, and as you may have noticed, I had started doing that for some radicals. But then I stopped doing Wiktionary for a while. I am happy to be back. Second off: I assume that the characters in the indices are sorted firstly by stroke order (obviously), and then by Unicode order. Am I right? Third off: I see that you undid my revision on one of the indices. As far as my knowledge goes, the plural form of a word, in this case stroke/strokes, is used when there are zero, two, or more strokes. Wikipedia define a plural as: "The plural, in many languages, is one of the values of the grammatical category of number. Plural of nouns typically denote a quantity other than the default quantity represented by a noun, which is generally one (the form that represents this default quantity is said to be of singular number). Most commonly, therefore, plurals are used to denote two or more of something, although they may also denote fractional, zero or negative amounts.". Is it therefore okay if I change "stroke" back to "strokes"? I personally think that it sounds better. - VulpesVulpes42 (talk) 14:55, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

  1. I'd appreciated your help. I had thought to implement Unihan database for a long time. And later, I may use bot to create absent character pages on this project. (It is doing well on Thai Wiktionary.)
  2. Unihan sorting is based on UAX #38. See kDefaultSortKey. It is nearly to arrange main & A-E blocks in order. (There's newer update proposal but no change.)
  3. Sorry for my revert because I didn't know before; I had never used 0 to describe a thing. I studied a bit in case and I already put -s back on every pages.

--Octahedron80 (talk) 16:09, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

于, 扵 and 於[edit]

Hi Octahedron80, I don't know why you insist that 扵 ≠ 於. I don't think this is specific to Mandarin. Here are a few sources that say 扵 = 於:

— justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:04, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I am sorry if I am misunderstanding. --Octahedron80 (talk) 04:05, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
That's fine. I also apologize for continuously reverting your edits without sufficient explanation. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

th module[edit]

สวัสดีครับ. เข้าใจว่า คุณแก้ , , (เมื่อเป็นตัวสะกด) เป็นเสียง t, p, n, ตามลำดับ.

ช่วยแก้คืนเป็นเสียง s, f, l, ตามลำดับ, ได้ไหมครับ?

เพราะเคยมีการคุยกันแล้ว, และคุณ Wyang เพิ่มเสียง -s, -f, -l เข้าไปสำหรับกรณี phoneme สะกดด้วย (ไม่ใช่ อย่างแม่กด), (ไม่ใช่ อย่างแม่กบ), (ไม่ใช่ อย่างแม่กน).

เช่น ซอส ว่า "ซ้อส", ซอฟต์แวร์ ว่า "ซ้อฟ-แว", "ออสเตรเลีย" ว่า "อ้อส-เตฺร-เลีย", ฯลฯ.

--iudexvivorum (talk) 00:14, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

เรื่องนั้นผมก็คิดอยู่เหมือนกัน ตอนนั้นผมเข้าใจว่า เอารูปคำต้นฉบับไปแปลง ก็เลยทำใหม่เป็นอย่างที่เห็น และคิดต่อไปว่า จะทำรูปพิเศษให้ด้วยซ้ำ แต่เนื่องจากว่ามอดูลนี้แปลงจากคำอ่าน เดี๋ยวเปลี่ยนให้ครับ แต่บางตัวก็ผิดเช่น ร=r ฬ=l ซึ่งไม่เคยมีเสียงเหล่านี้ --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:39, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
ขอบพระคุณมากครับ. --iudexvivorum (talk) 02:00, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

th adv, adj, etc.[edit]

สวัสดีครับ. จำเป็นต้องให้แสดงอาการนาม (abstract noun) โดยอัตโนมัติทุกคำด้วยหรือครับ? บางคำก็ไม่น่ามีอาการนามนะครับ, อย่าง:

ฯลฯ.

นอกจากนี้, แม่แบบเดิมได้งดเรียก transliteration, หลังจากเปลี่ยนไปใช้ template:th-pron เมื่อไม่นานมานี้. แต่ปัจจุบันกลับมาเรียก transliteration อีกแล้วครับ.

รบกวนพิจารณาด้วยครับ.

--iudexvivorum (talk) 05:53, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

คำส่วนใหญ่สามารถเติม "การ" หรือ "ความ" เป็นอาการนามได้ทันที ส่วนคำไหนที่ไม่มีรูปอาการนาม ก็แค่ใส่ขีด "-" ต่อท้าย (ให้ลองพิจารณาให้ถี่ถ้วนว่า POS ถูกประเภทหรือไม่) หรือถ้ามีรูปทั้งการและความก็ใส่ "~" เรื่องจำเป็นหรือไม่ คิดว่าจำเป็น เพราะภาษาอื่นก็ทำเช่นกัน มอดูลนี้ได้ใช้ในโครงการภาษาไทยมาระยะหนึ่งแล้ว ส่วนการถอดอักษร ผมได้ใส่ nil เอาไว้ ซึ่งก็ไม่เข้าใจว่าทำไมยังปรากฏอยู่ จะหาวิธีแก้ไขต่อไป --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:58, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

ขอบพระคุณที่อธิบายครับ. --iudexvivorum (talk) 06:06, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

สร้าง[edit]

Hi,

Re: changes in {{th-verb}} and Module:th-headword

The automatic transliteration in the headword is currently strange - it's "srâang", not "sâang". If it's not using the same as in the pronunciation section, it's better to leave it empty as in Wyang's version, I think. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:02, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Already noticed above. Transliteration is already set to nil in the module but it still appears. So nothing to do with the module. Please support module change (th) at Module_talk:headword#th --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:18, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. There may be other places as well. Let me check this when I get to my desktop tonight.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:21, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
I've added it but there's no effect. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:28, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
It's ok now. After I tracked its code and I replaced nil with hyphen (which is not preferable). If you still see on some page, purge it. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:40, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Diacritical mark "Yamakkan"[edit]

สวัสดีค่ะ คุณคิดว่าควรใช้ยามักการกำกับเสียงที่ออกเล็กน้อยไหมคะ อย่าง "เอส๎-โต-เนีย" (เอสโตเนีย Estonia), "อ๊อส๎-เตฺร-เลีย" (ออสเตรเลีย Australia), "ซ้อฟ๎-แว" (ซอฟต์แวร์ software) "อัฟ๎-กัน" (อัฟกัน Afghan)

มีการใช้ยามักการอยู่ในดิกต์บางเล่ม สำนักพิมพ์บางแห่งก็ใช้อยู่ แต่ไม่ค่อยนิยม เราเห็นว่ามีประโยชน์ เลยลองใช้ดูในบางหน้า แต่แม่แบบยังไม่รับ คำอ่านเลยไม่แสดง ถ้าคุณเห็นด้วย เราก็จะใช้ต่อไป (และไปเชิญชวนให้คนอื่นใช้ด้วย) และจะได้ขอให้ฝรั่ง (หรือคุณ 55+) แก้ไขแม่แบบให้รับยามักการด้วย

อ่านเพิ่ม: "การกลับมาของยามักการ" - รศ. ดร.นิตยา กาญจนะวรรณ ภาคีสมาชิก สำนักศิลปกรรม ราชบัณฑิตยสถาน

--หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 15:33, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

ไม่เห็นด้วย เดิมยามักการเอาไว้ใช้แทนพินทุในภาษาบาลีอักษรไทย ในตำแหน่งที่เป็นอักษรควบกล้ำและตัวสะกด เช่น พ๎รห๎มา (พฺรหฺมา อ่าน พฺรัม-มา) ส๎วากขาโต (สฺวากขาโต อ่าน สะ-หฺวาก-ขา-โต) ชิต๎วา (ชิตฺวา อ่าน ชิด-ตะ-วา) แต่ปัจจุบันใช้พินทุหมด เราจึงรับพินทุมาแสดงคำอ่านไทยด้วย และใช้ในพจนานุกรมที่เป็นทางการ อนึ่งพินทุมีลักษณะคล้าย virama ในอักษรต่าง ๆ ของภาษาในอินเดีย ดังนั้นไม่มีประโยชน์อะไรที่จะเอาสัญลักษณ์อื่นมาแสดงแทน ถ้าหากทำได้ ในอนาคตอาจจะมีคนอื่นอุตริคิดสัญลักษณ์ขึ้นมาใหม่มาแทนอีก --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:27, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
ปล. คำที่สะกดด้วย ล (ลิ้นแตะเพดาน) ไม่ได้ออกเสียงอย่างแม่เกอว ว (ห่อปาก) --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:50, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
@Wyang, Iudexvivorum, Octahedron80, หมวดซาโต้, Alifshinobi Hello. I don't understand Thai but หมวดซาโต้ has introduced changes without a discussion and agreement. Now all these transliterations fail. The code can't handle yamakkan. Any objections if I revert the changes, until this is addressed? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:15, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
↑ For short, I opposed to use Yamakkan, an archaic symbol, in pronunciation because it is even not used by official dictionary. --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
I see. Thanks. BTW, I get the phonemic Thai from dictionaries - either as transliterations or spelled out with the Thai script. Sometimes, they seem to be wrong - I've seen you correcting my entries. Does it mean that my sources are wrong or phonemic Thai doesn't always match the exact pronunciation? If more than one pronunciation is allowed, you can use "|".--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:50, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Many western loanwords we usually change tones on them for long time when reading even no tone marks. By the way, some words (including Thai originated ones) reads shorter or longer than they are written. Recently, it had some seminar about this in Thailand. เบคอน is a good example. Additionally, Thai orthography doesn't allow putting tone mark above shorten mark, so we'll see either tone mark or shorten mark on a (part of) word. Whether it is short or long become from user experience. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:30, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

ขอบคุณที่แก้ไขค่ะ 55+ แต่ดูเหมือนมีปัญหาที่อิสราเอลค่ะ เพราะแม่แบบถอดเสียงว่า ìs-raa-lee, ìt-sà-raa-lee --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 14:02, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

+เบลเยียมด้วยค่ะ ถอดเสียงว่า blee-yîiam --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 14:05, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
เห็นปัญหาแล้วตอนที่แก้นั่นแหละ กำลังคอยดูอยู่ว่าจะมีกรณีไหนอีก จะได้แจ้ง คุณเวียง ทีเดียว--Octahedron80 (talk) 14:09, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for budging in. Is เบลเยียม (blee-yîiam) now correct?! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:10, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
TL logic still be wrong. I am finding similar cases then I will tell Wyang. (or I may correct the code) --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:28, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

อุซเบกิสถาน and other countries[edit]

Hi,

Could you check the phonemic Thai for อุซเบกิสถาน, please?

Is it OK if I give you a small list of countries in this format to check? I'm sure there could be a problem with "s":

Please fix the "|p=" part only.

--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:05, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

อุซเบกิสถาน fixed. For your request:

  • เติ๊ก-เม-นิส-ถาน or เติ๊ก-เม-นิด-สะ-ถาน
  • ทา-จิ-กิ๊ส-ถาน or ทา-จิ-กิ๊ด-สะ-ถาน

You should use first one for th-l. About s, not every word is in pattern like these.--Octahedron80 (talk) 01:33, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

th-l[edit]

สวัสดีครับ. เดี๋ยวนี้พารามิเตอร์ p= ในแม่แบบ th-l ใช้ไม่ได้แล้วหรือครับ? ตัวอย่าง: {{th-l|เพลา|p=เพ-ลา}} ก็ไม่แสดงเป็น pee-laa, แต่เป็น plao ทุกที. ปัญหาอย่างนี้ยังเกิดในแม่แบบอื่น ๆ อีก, เช่น {{m|th|เพลา|tr=pee-laa}} หรือ {{l|th|เพลา|tr=pee-laa}}. เราจะแก้ไขอย่างไรได้บ้างถ้าต้องการให้แสดงคำอ่านโดยเจาะจง. ขอบพระคุณครับ. --iudexvivorum (talk) 11:37, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

ขอให้แจ้งคนสร้างแม่แบบดังกล่าว คือคุณเวียง ไม่ใช่ผมครับ --Octahedron80 (talk) 04:54, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Programming operators[edit]

Hi. I'm not sure we should include these, as they don't occur in human language. For example, the entries for APL symbols were deleted, and we don't include programming language keywords either (unless adopted into English like enum). Equinox 11:36, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

IMO They should be included because they are symbols and they are under the programming topic. In the other hand, why the mathematical symbols and emojis can be included here if they are not the human language? --Octahedron80 (talk) 11:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
  • Naturally, I Symbol support vote.svg Support including programming language symbols. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 11:42, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Thai transliteration module[edit]

สวัสดีค่ะ ถ้าคุณ Octahedron80 ว่าง ก็โปรดแวะไปแสดงความคิดเห็นใน Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2016/June#Automatic_transliteration_for_Thai_has_been_disabled_for_now หน่อยนะคะ เพราะคุณชำนาญเรื่องทางเทคนิค ในนั้นกำลังทะเลาะกันโขมงโฉงเฉงเลย

เรื่องของเรื่อง คือ CodeCat แก้ Module:links แล้วเกิดปัญหา (ดู User_talk:Wyang#Thai_transliteration_-_old_problems_come_back) Wyang แก้กลับ CodeCat ไม่ยอมก็แก้คืน แก้กันไปมา ทีหลังคนอื่นมาผสมโรง แล้วก็ไปคุยกันที่ User_talk:Wyang#Module:links คุยไปคุยมาก็บานปลาย กลายเป็นแซะกันส่วนตัว CodeCat เลยปิดฟังก์ชันการถอดอักษรไทยทั้งหมด แล้วไปคุยกันต่อที่ Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2016/June#Automatic_transliteration_for_Thai_has_been_disabled_for_now

ถ้าเข้าใจไม่ผิด ประเด็นของ CodeCat คือ ควรแก้ Module:th-translit ให้ถอดอักษรไทยโดยอัตโนมัติให้ถูกต้อง โดยไม่ต้อง respelling แต่ Wyang ก็บอกว่า มันต้อง respelling เหมือนที่ใช้ในภาษาเอเชียหลาย ๆ ภาษา ตอนนี้ยังตกลงกันไม่ได้ แต่ก็มีสงครามการแก้ไขอยู่ในหน้า Module:links

ส่วนดิฉันไม่รู้เรื่องทางเทคนิค ก็ได้แต่นั่งดูเขาทะเลาะกัน (55) แต่ถ้าได้ผู้ใช้ภาษาไทยเป็นภาษาแม่และมีความรู้ทางนี้อย่างคุณ Octahedron80 ไปแสดงความคิดเห็นก็คงดี จึงมาเชื้อเชิญค่ะ

--YURi (talk) 14:54, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

ผมไม่ค่อยจะสนใจ link เท่าไหร่นะครับ ขอแค่ pron อ่านถูกก็พอ ส่วนตัวคิดว่าระบบ paiboon (ซึ่งไม่รู้ว่าเอามาจากไหน) ดีกว่าระบบ royin เพราะมันละเอียดกว่า --Octahedron80 (talk) 16:00, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

pi-alt[edit]

I <3 your pi-alt template so I included it in my cut-and-paste system for Devanagari syllables. Another user though has alerted me that when I applied it to kau कौ, it came out as ka:u कउ; how can I fix this? Warmest Regards, :)—thecurran Speak your mind my past 13:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Because Pali does not have the vowels 'ai' and 'au'. It has only 8 vowels as seen in Module:pi-Latn-translit. When you apply to 'kau', it definitely returns 'ka+u'. So please do not use the template in other place than Pali section. --Octahedron80 (talk) 14:21, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

ק׳[edit]

You added the line ['ק׳'] = 'c', to Module:he-translit. I'm just totally baffled by where you found this, and what "c" even means. --WikiTiki89 15:54, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Hebrew_alphabet told me that ק׳ read as [ɕ] but there is not many choices left then I chose 'c' for it. I adopted your code at thwikt and it works quite well. I think I also forgot to add ע׳ but I just can't decide which letter to use. --Octahedron80 (talk) 20:16, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
It's possible it's used in another Hebrew-script language (even though I've never heard of this), but certainly not in Hebrew. I have asked Nemzag about it; he was the one who added it to the Wikipedia page. Don't worry about ע׳, it's only used in transliterations of Arabic, so not really Hebrew. --WikiTiki89 20:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I also just realized that if ק׳ is actually used in any Hebrew-script language or transliteration system, then [ɕ] must have been a misreading of [ɢ], which would make a thousand times more sense; but still I have never heard of ק׳ being used this way. --WikiTiki89 21:41, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Formatting moved Lao pages[edit]

Hi, please note the changes I've made to ຫນາວ and others. Rather than treat it as an alternative spelling that is also dated, it makes more sense to use the template for dated spellings. Ultimateria (talk) 10:58, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for informing me that the template exists. :) --Octahedron80 (talk) 11:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
  • I fear you may be rushing into this. There's no discernable current preference for the ligature spellings in modern Laos. Anyway I wrote some thoughts about it over on Module_talk:lo-headword - should we move it to the Beer Parlour? — hippietrail (talk) 00:17, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Template:lo-noun[edit]

Your edits to this template seem to have broken all the Lao entries using it (some don't show translit now, others have more serious issues). Firstly, you need to be much more careful when you make a change. Secondly, you need to fix all the entries or undo your edits to the template. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:35, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

This will be fixed at the Module:lo-headword and removing deprecated parameters. (th.wikt does not have such the problem 😅) --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:45, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I think I finished the work. --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 08:06, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

OctraBot[edit]

In Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2016/August#Unicode 9.0, you requested for User:OctraBot to be unblocked. Apparently, this is an unauthorized and undiscussed bot. What were you intending to do with it? A bot requires a vote before it can be used. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 16:02, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Probably not for updating Unicode 9.0. I found some script written by module's author (after that). I am just going to run it in my subsystem and paste the result.
With the bot, I tend to use with interwiki and some little cleanup. I already created vote topic then. --Octahedron80 (talk) 00:52, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
I unblocked the bot. Per WT:BOT, feel free to use the bot and do a test run in a very small number of entries, to make sure your code goes well, if you want. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 05:01, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Okay thanks for that :) --Octahedron80 (talk) 05:03, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
You're welcome. :) --Daniel Carrero (talk) 05:09, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

You have created 60+ entries with the unauthorized bot today. Another admin blocked the bot. I encouraged you to do a very small test run, so I agree with the blocking admin: "Making way more than enough edits for a vote". If the vote passes, the bot will be able to do the proposed task freely in all entries. WT:BOT says: "Then, do a test run (under the bot account) on some 10-50 entries until you’re certain everything goes well (bots with a single function, like interwiki, should not run more than 25 edits)." For the record, the edits seem to be okay. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 06:13, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

That's all right. I just recalled a steward said that bot must edit 100 times and I thought this would also apply to en.wikt. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:22, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

der, inh, bor[edit]

  • {{der}} = generic derivation template, use it when in doubt
  • {{inh}} = "inheritance": the word came from an earlier stage of the same language, like an English word that came from Middle English
  • {{bor}} = a word "borrowed" directly from other language, like how "pizza" came from Italian and "sushi" came from Japanese

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 01:48, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Okey-dokey. --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:57, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

To be clear: I delivered that short explanation because you said: "But I am still confused when to use bor, der or inh because they are similar." I don't know if you actually needed it; one plausible hypothesis is that you already knew and was just confused at the time about remembering it. :) Ignore if you want. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 02:00, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

ขีด[edit]

แพทย น่าจะมีขีด เป็น แพทย- หรือเปล่าคะ เพราะในพจนฯ ราชบัณฑิตฯ ก็ลงไว้แบบมีขีด น่าจะสร้างหน้าได้ เหมือน anti-, pseudo-, re- อะไรประมาณนี้ค่ะ --YURi (talk) 10:25, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

ไม่เหมือนกันครับ prefix suffix ของฝรั่งหมายถึง มีรากศัพท์อยู่ตรงกลาง แล้วพวกนี้มาเติมทำให้ความหมายแปรเปลี่ยนไป แต่ยังคงวนอยู่กับความหมายเดิม หรือมีไว้ผันรูป ส่วนไทยนี้ ลอกวิธีมาจากภาษาของอินเดีย คือคำหน้าขยายคำหลัง เหมือน compound word คำไทยแท้ที่ คำหลังขยายคำหน้า ความหมายอาจจะไปคนละเรื่อง คำเหล่านี้ล้วนไม่ใช่ prefix suffix เรื่องขีดนั้นไม่เห็นว่าต้องเติม เพราะคำไทยที่ประกอบอาจจะอยู่หน้าหรือหลังก็ได้ เติมขีดเพิ่มเท่ากับเราต้องไปสร้างหน้าเหล่านั้นเพิ่ม ทำให้เปลืองแรงงาน หากดูภาษาของอินเดีย ไม่มีใครทำเช่นนั้น นอกจากนี้การเติมขีด ทำให้แม่แบบเข้าใจผิดได้ว่า นี่เป็น prefix suffix เพราะเขาเขียนไว้แบบนั้น --Octahedron80 (talk) 11:32, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

กราบขอบพระคุณที่อธิบายจนกระจ่างแจ้งดังแสงตะวันค่ะ _/\_ ลืมเรื่องการสร้างคำในภาษาไทยไปสนิท หลงคิดว่ามันคือ prefix suffix 55 --YURi (talk) 13:39, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Misspellings[edit]

Misspellings are not lemmas. Please just use {{head|en|misspelling}}. DTLHS (talk) 00:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I looked some missy entries use that so I just copied from it. I will do your suggestion from now on. --Octahedron80 (talk) 00:53, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
@DTLHS Let's see CodeCat's comment here [1] --Octahedron80 (talk) 14:18, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Misspellings are actually lemmas, unless they are only misspelling of one particular form of the word. --WikiTiki89 15:29, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Avestan lemmas[edit]

Hi, where do you get your Avestan terms from? Thanks! AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 03:04, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos
By copying, I got from [2]. Look for ave-003 Avestan-script Avestan. But it has very few words. For example, search "dog". Some of them are from PDF. I even saw Avestan vocabulary on some Wikipedia but I forgot which project. I also heard that there are many forms of a term so be careful adding entry. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:11, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
BabelMap will help you input far-Unicode letters. But you must have a font first. I use Noto Sans Avestan. Additionally, Avestan script is right-to-left system. Don't believe what you see in IE and Edge. Use Firefox or Chrome instead. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:54, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 10:13, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Tone numbers[edit]

It should probably be "alternative spelling", because it's a different written representation of the same thing. —CodeCat 00:36, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps. --Octahedron80 (talk) 00:37, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it's fine by me. I see you have already done some. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:41, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
It's too much work to convert them manually. Someone might do it with a bot. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:18, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Not worry. I am used to it. --Octahedron80 (talk) 12:23, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
It's just very inefficient. For a bot-writer, it's a rather trivial task. Your energy is better spent elsewhere, for example in Category:Thai terms without th-pron template, which requires the knowledge of Thai, especially when the readings are not easily available in dictionaries. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:35, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Great job with OctraBot's recent edits[edit]

Not sure whether the respellings were manually entered prior or extracted from another place (I'd be very interested if such resource is available), but regardless, it was fantastic work. Wyang (talk) 06:53, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, great job, would be great to see the source you used. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:09, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I write new program that imports pronunciation data from Thai Wiktionary. And that's that; many entries still remain. Let me cleanup there for some time and I will run it again. And sorry for forgetting to set bot flag. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:05, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

"dummy"[edit]

Is there a reason you're adding this to numbered pinyin entries? DTLHS (talk) 03:41, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

I let bot do task after my edit. Whatever content will be dropped so I just put something like dummy. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:44, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
I see, thanks. DTLHS (talk) 03:51, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

崖 (yái)[edit]

https://www.moedict.tw/%E5%B4%96suzukaze (tc) 08:30, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

K. I also check 睚 too. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:33, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Superscript sense at 2[edit]

In my opinion, we don't need to add the sense "(superscript) The square of a number or an unit." in the entry 2. This can be understood from the context: any superscript number or letter can be a power in math, but I believe we don't need senses for all of those:

0 = "(superscript) The power of 0."
1 = "(superscript) The power of 1."
a = "(superscript) The power of a."
b = "(superscript) The power of b."
c = "(superscript) The power of c."

We do have Appendix:Superscript to explain that. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 02:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

All right. I just put what I think that it is missing. The super-2 and super-3 are very common. --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Mistakes native speakers make when speaking Thai[edit]

Hi Octahedron80, I wonder if native speakers themselves make grammatical mistakes when speaking Thai? Can you tell me some examples? Thanks! – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 06:51, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

IMO, there is not much grammatical mistake in speaking because Thai language doesn't have inflection, conjugation, and declension‎. Instead, Thai people have more significant problem about spelling correct words. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:59, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
Tell me some misspellings. Also, when I went to Thailand years ago, I noticed with Thai writing that some had little loops at corners of letters and some didn't, resulting them looking like lowercase Latin letters. Why is that the case? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 13:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
PS are you also an admin? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 13:27, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

คำ[edit]

สวัสดีครับ จำพวก "พระ-", "พระราช-", "พระบรมราช-", "พระบรมมหา-", "ราช-", "อัคร-", "อัครมหา-", "อัครราช-" ฯลฯ (อย่าง พระโองการ, พระราชโองการ, พระบรมราชโองการ, พระราชวัง, พระบรมมหาราชวัง, ราชวัง, อัครมเหสี, พระอัครมเหสี ฯลฯ) นี่ส่วนใหญ่ต้องรีไดเหร็กใช่ไหมครับ --iudexvivorum (talk) 06:17, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

ผมรีไดเหร็ก พระราชโองการ และ พระบรมราชโองการ ไปยัง โองการ แล้วใส่วงเล็บลูกน้ำไว้หน้านิยามใน โองการ แบบนี้โอเคไหมครับ --iudexvivorum (talk) 06:24, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
กรณีคำว่า ราชโองการ, ราชโยงการ = คำสั่งราชการของพระมหากษัตริย์ เป็น lemma ครับ และ โองการก็เป็นอีก lemma หนึ่ง ลองเปิดดูในพจน. นอกนั้นก็ทำเปลี่ยนทางอย่างที่ว่าตามสะดวก ผมกะจะทำอยู่เหมือนกัน หากค้นบางคำไม่เจอ ลองดูว่าอะไร "แค่เติม" หรือว่า "ผสาน" ไปกับความหมาย --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:17, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
  • พระราชโองการ > ราชโองการ
  • พระบรมราชโองการ > ราชโองการ
  • พระราชโยงการ > ราชโยงการ
  • พระบรมราชโยงการ > ราชโยงการ

--Octahedron80 (talk) 07:17, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Thai writing[edit]

Hi octahedron, just wanting to know about "Modern Thai" fonts, e.g. (pɔɔ) looks in that style like a Latin 'w'. Is it hard to read? Who invented this font style? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 00:12, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Personally I like it better than the traditional 'looped' version – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 00:12, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
It's not modern style at all. Don't study or teach Thai with that font. It's is just font style that imitates Latin alphabet. Like serif and sans-serif, no one especially invented it.--Octahedron80 (talk) 01:42, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
But it was everywhere when I went to Thailand! – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 02:00, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
Just used in media and advertisement for eye-catching. Nobody writes like that. --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:33, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Module Errors[edit]

There are a couple of Malaysian entries that showed up in CAT:E after you edited Module:ms-headword. Please fix them. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 01:36, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:45, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

~ in definitions[edit]

Hi,

As a learner of Thai, I don't find it very user-friendly when usage examples with transliterations are replaced with WORD + ~. Anyway, why are you removing valid examples like this one:

โบสถ์คริสต์  ―  bòot krít  ―  (Christian) church? -Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:41, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Tilde is very known in dictionaries to substitute headword because they can't be lemma (i.e. SOP) or they must/often use with other word(s). They are not usage examples. And I didn't remove the example; I moved it to adjective. --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:46, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
About transliteration, there will be solution in the future, that should discuss with Wyang too. --Octahedron80 (talk) 02:54, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
I see. Thanks. It's still more useful to show transliterations. First of all, I find it a bit silly splitting proper nouns into adjective and other PoS, like making {{th-l|ไทย} - a proper noun (Thailand), noun (Thai person), adjective (related to Thai), etc. For a language like Thai, which has no inflection, it's sufficient to make one PoS and nest everything under it.
I suggest this format under ===Proper noun=== and remove the adjective section:
===Proper noun===
{{th-proper noun}}

# [[Christ]], [[Christian]]
#: {{th-x|โบสถ์ คริสต์|(Christian) church}}
#: {{th-x|ศาสนา คริสต์|Christianity (religion)}}
What do you think? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:02, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Your method does not apply every situation. For example, have you seen แก้ว ดาว and อาทิตย์ yet? I think tilde notation already fits all. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:08, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I understand the intention and I agree that ~ can be used and cannot be applied everywhere. My request is NOT to remove examples with transliterations if they already exist. I noticed you and other Thai editors have adopted your method but started removing useful usexes. The Thai script is not easy to read for foreigners, pls don't neglect the need for transliterations where possible and when it's already been added in entries. :) Calling @Wyang re transliterations. --03:18, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
PS. I am not the first person here to use the symbol. ;-) --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:22, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Personally, I like the ~ notation, though I think it should be templated, like {{zh-div}}. If the meaning is not very obvious, we can add a ? to the top right corner. Wyang (talk) 04:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

เครื่องหมายยึกยือ[edit]

สวัสดีค่ะ ควรใส่ไว้อันหลังสุดอันเดียวก็พอแล้วหรือเปล่าคะ อย่าง "(ก, ข, ค, ง~)" มากกว่าจะเป็น "(ก~, ข~, ค~, ง~)" --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 08:05, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

ตัวหนอนเป็นสัญลักษณ์แทนคำหลัก ใช้ประกอบอยู่กับคำ จึงควรมีตัวหนอนทุกคำ จะได้รู้ตำแหน่งประกอบ ดูตัวอย่างที่ พุทธ --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:07, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

เข้าใจแล้วค่ะ ขอบพระคุณค่ะ --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 08:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Paiboon[edit]

Hi Octahedron, can Thai people read Paiboon (or other romanization systems)? Can you read it well? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 11:56, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Thai people really do not use Paiboon's system (they do not even know it). Instead, they use the Royal Institute's system as in official documents and traffic signs. But there is one problem: the RI's system does not express actual pronunciation, making farangs confused. The Paiboon's system is better for foreign learners IMO. If they can read, I can read too. --Octahedron80 (talk) 13:59, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
@Octahedron80 What does Royal Institute's system looks like? For example what would ประเทศไทย (bprà-têet tai) look like – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 00:44, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
[3] --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:37, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Farang[edit]

@Octahedron80 With the term 'farang', why that term? Do you often have issues with them? Do they make you look inferior to them? – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 08:05, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

What is the problem? These days, they also call themselves farang. I used to live in Hua Hin; I know that. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:11, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
@Octahedron80 Do you of any Farangs who were born in Thailand and speak fluent Thai? BTW 'farang' somewhat reminds me of 'France' – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 08:30, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
The ฝรั่ง (farang) means westerner or foreigner in speaking, so no farang born in Thailand. They may or may not speak Thai. If they have family and later have children born in Thailand, their children are also not called farang, instead, ลูกครึ่ง (luuk krueng ≈ hybrid) we said. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:44, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
@Octahedron80 So do you know any ลูกครึ่ง who can speak Thai – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 08:46, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
Thailand have lots of ลูกครึ่ง, and some are celebrities. See some. Because they can come & go between their parent's countries, definitely they can speak Thai. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:49, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Character images in appendices[edit]

In case you are interested, the images of each character now appear in the Unicode appendices too. See Appendix:Unicode/Geometric Shapes. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 22:07, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Good job. That will help someone to overview a block without having special font. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:15, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. I was thinking about that too. It would be nice if all characters in the appendices got images eventually, including all Chinese characters. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 03:18, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Thai vs Lao[edit]

Hi Octahedron, I know of two languages that sound similar but are also different in ways, Thai (ไทย (tai)) and Lao (ລາວ (lāo)). As you are a native Thai speaker, do you understand Lao most of the time? Please confirm this, but what I've also heard is that Lao is easier to learn in Thai, in the sense of pronunciation and spelling – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 22:35, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

I can understand Lao speak, as I heard in Lao's TV. But they also have different vocabulary to call things. As my view, Lao text look weird in Thai eyes and take some time to comprehend. Lao people might think in vice versa. --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:08, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
When I examined on Wiktionary, I discovered that Thai can have irregularities in spelling, such as ข้าพเจ้า (kâa-pá-jâao) phonetically pronounced as ข้า-พ-จ้าว (kâa-pá-jâao). But in Lao, the exact cognate, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າ (khā pha chao) is spelled phonetically, which means that Lao is more phonetically spelt than Thai – AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我) 01:24, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Thai usually keep spellings corresponding to their etymology, especially words that come from Pali & Sanskrit. While Lao cannot do that because they have not enough consonants. But they are happy to spell out everything. --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:32, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Gothic alphabet etymologies[edit]

What's the source for this diff? — Kleio (t · c) 18:24, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about that. Please edit or put 'unknown' sir. --Octahedron80 (talk) 00:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I added some qualifications and a source. — Kleio (t · c) 18:25, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Module:shn-pron question[edit]

Hi Octahedron, in this module mentioned above, there is a 'vowel' listed as ူ*. I just wanted to know what does the star mean and how to use it? – AWESOME meeos * (chōmtī hao /t͡ɕoːm˩˧.tiː˩˧ haw˦˥/) 06:50, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

It is the special mark for internal condition at line 55. Don't directly use it. --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:03, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

OctraBot is making a mess[edit]

It's adding templates with parameters missing or empty and causing module errors. Please check your code. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:27, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Could you point some? NVM I gonna see your revert instead. --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:09, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I guess you already revert all of them? I don't see any more in Category:Pages with module errors. --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:36, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

End --Octahedron80 (talk) 16:59, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

etyl → der[edit]

Is Octrabot simply changing all {{etyl}}'s to {{der}}'s? This is really a job a human should be doing, because the decision whether to use {{der}}, {{bor}}, or {{inh}} needs to be made on a case by case basis. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:45, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

The etyl is already basically der. To change from der to others take less effort than to change from etyl. This is the first step to get rid of etyl. I also think about to change der to inh in case of proto languages. Leave them for later. --Octahedron80 (talk) 14:00, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
The thing is, they're much harder to find once {{etyl}} has been changed to {{der}} because then they're no longer in CAT:etyl cleanup. There's no knowing what's been robotically changed from {{etyl}} to {{der}} and what's been done so deliberately. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:14, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
There will be some way to collect those. Let me think a bit. --Octahedron80 (talk) 14:22, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

End --Octahedron80 (talk) 16:54, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Etyl -> der bot edits[edit]

Why are you changing the etyl template to der? Was there a concensus for this? The reason we have Category:etyl cleanup is so we can sort these entries into the proper type of etymology (borrowing, inherited, etc) on a case-by-case basis. It's not to replace one template with another. Ultimateria (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Oh. What he said. ^^ Ultimateria (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
See above lol. --Octahedron80 (talk) 14:04, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

End --Octahedron80 (talk) 16:54, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Please revert all your etyl -> der changes[edit]

There is no consensus for them. I disagree with the changes, as do several other editors above. By rule, a bot cannot make controversial changes, and any such change made by a bot must be reverted upon request. Thanks! Benwing2 (talk) 14:23, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Better revert. Sorry. However pywikibot has no self revert script, so I must create a new program. It will take more time than pywikibot. --Octahedron80 (talk) 16:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
The best way to do this is to keep a careful log when running a bot, where you output "Page XXX: changed {{foo}} to {{bar}}" and such. I always do that in my bot runs. That way, it's pretty easy to revert if needed by just using regexp substitutions and checking to make sure that exactly one substitution happened; otherwise you need to fix it manually. Benwing2 (talk) 07:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Does tone follow Thai songs?[edit]

Hi Octahedron80, do Thai tones follow the melody of songs? — AWESOME meeos * (chōmtī hao /t͡ɕoːm˩˧.tiː˩˧ haw˦˥/) 06:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

IDK. Have you ever heard Chinese songs? It may be like that. --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:58, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

ลักษณนาม[edit]

หวัดดีค่ะ ทำแม่แบบต่างหาก เพื่อลงลักษณนามแยกเป็นความหมาย ๆ ดีไหมคะ (คล้าย ๆ first attested ในหน้า abbot#Noun เป็นต้น) เพราะอย่างหน้า หนังสือ บางความหมายก็ไม่ได้ใช้ลักษณนาม เล่ม/ฉบับ (ความหมายแรกเป็นต้น) --หมวดซาโต้ (talk) 08:26, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

ของภาษาจีนดูเหมือนจะมีเหมือนกัน ก็คิดอยู่ว่าจะทำครับ แต่อันไหนใช้รวมกันได้ ขอให้ใส่ไว้กับ th-noun ครับ --Octahedron80 (talk) 08:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

mul-letter module[edit]

Hi! Seeing that you are the author of Module:mul-letter, I’ve got a question. Is there a way for the saltillo pages ( and ) to display upper- and lowercase variants as before, given that the parameters upper=Ꞌ and lower=ꞌ are no longer accepted in {{mul-letter}}? I would’ve tweaked the Lua code myself if I knew how to code. Thanks! ―Born2bgratis (talk) 01:39, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

The cases are generally mapped by Unicode. In case of failure, that means internal engine (Lua, I think) is not support on the character in question. You can input more data in Module:mul-letter/data under common set to override default behavior. --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:51, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Telugu plural forms[edit]

Hello. I am working about common Telugu plural rules in Module:te-headword. Could you tell me if there are more common rules to apply to noun, for new usage of Template:te-noun? For special cases, they will not be put there. --Octahedron80 (talk) 07:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the help in creating the plural forms of Telugu nouns. Basically I am not a linguist and not familiar with the Telugu grammatical rules. Few straight forward things we can begin with. The nouns ending with Rhymes:Telugu/ప్ప, we can add లు (lu) to covert them to plurals.Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 15:07, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
That rule is already the last line of the code when a word does not meet other conditions. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:50, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
I do not know why you are not responsive. The said example is created by the program you are developing. It is o.k. The one more example, I am familiar is when there is గుడి (guḍi) (the vowel (i)), we have to change it to కొమ్ము (kommu) (the vowel (u)) and add లు (lu) as suffix. Ex: పులి (puli) to పులులు (pululu).Rajasekhar1961 (talk) 05:44, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
Adding some rule is easy. But I wonder if changing -i to -ulu would be appliable in most case? --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:43, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
[4] page 50 of this may be helpful. —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 16:25, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

อุตพิด[edit]

ดิกต์ราชบัณฑิตบอกว่า มาจาก "อาจม์" อะครับ: "[อุดตะ-] น. ชื่อไม้ล้มลุกมีหัวชนิด Typhonium trilobatum (L.) Schott ในวงศ์ Araceae ดอกบานเวลาเย็น กลิ่นเหม็นเหมือนอุจจาระ. (ข. อาจม์ + พิษ)." --iudexvivorum (talk) 03:08, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

ผมว่าไม่ใช่ครับ อาจม์ มันห่างไกลจาก อุต มาก อ่านยังไงก็ไม่ได้อุด เรื่องตัวสะกดก็เหมือนกัน ถ้ามาจาก อาจม์ + พิษ ก็ควรจะเขียนเป็นบาลีหรือสันสกฤตด้วยซ้ำ --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

"Bangkok" or "Standard" Thai in {{th-pron}}[edit]

Hi Octahedron80, do you think we should change the label (Bangkok) to (standard)? I think "Bangkok Thai" can be misleading, as it can also refer to the colloquial dialect in which there are many features not recognised by our pronunciation, e.g. cluster dropping. Wyang (talk) 22:07, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree to change Bangkok to Standard because it is spoken through Thailand. There are also some significant varieties like "Suphan Buri" and "Korat". (I do not mention about northern, northeastern or southern dialects; they have their own varieties too). --Octahedron80 (talk) 01:57, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
Thank you! I will change it. Wyang (talk) 02:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)