Talk:ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ်

RFV discussion: January 2022

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ်#Mon as a translation of fried egg

RFV-t: Mon ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ်. Added by 咽頭べさ, please provide attestation. —Svārtava ^{[t•c•u•r]} 13:30, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Svartava2:, What do you think of my translation?.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 15:42, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@咽頭べさ Which translation? Could you please provide the attestation? —Svārtava ^{[t•c•u•r]} 16:02, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Svartava2:, What do you think of my ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ် vocabulary translation?, Do you understand Mon language?, Do you know what kind of person I am in Mon language?, can you tell me the exact purpose of deleting your ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ် vocabulary?, if I had known the exact intention of deleting your ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ် vocabulary, I would have been out of English Wiktionary, and your work would have been frustrating for me. As I write daily for a Mon language dictionary article, your actions really upset me.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 16:24, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Who you are and what you do is irrelevant here. You need to provide a reference to a reliable, durably archived source, like a dictionary or a sentence from a book etc. where it is used. See WT:CFI. --Rishabhbhat (talk) 17:35, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Rishabhbhat:,Okay, I want to ask you a question again, if the ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ် vocabulary is not copied from a book, what kind of reference should I make if it comes from my brain memory? please answer my question again, if there is no fried egg dictionary article on the English Wiktionary, I have no reason to translate, thanks.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 17:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

What kind of reference should you make if it comes from your "brain memory"? None - we don't keep terms for which there are no attestations, period. I don't know whether this term really exists or not but once such a request for verification has been raised you can't just brush it off like you did. If there are any dictionaries of the Mon language you can simply provide a page number from that dictionary and link it in a ===References=== section. Thanks for your understanding. --Rishabhbhat (talk) 18:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Rishabhbhat:, Think with your own brain, is it possible that a Mon people does not understand the Mon language?, is it possible that a Mon scholar who writes the Mon dictionary every day is illiterate in Mon literature?, take your time and think about what I mean. I am currently the only person on Mon Wiktionary who translates multiple languages daily into a dictionary, if you have any doubts about my translation, learn the Mon language yourself and your doubts will be cleared up, thanks.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 18:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@咽頭べさ: Being myself a native speaker of a rather sparsely attested language, I feel your struggles and I hope you don't leave Wiktionary. I want to ask you one thing however, what exactly are "Audio read" and "Audio speak"? Are those simply the Myanmar and Thailand pronunciations, as explained in Wiktionary:About_Mon? If so, I suggest we change it to "Audio (Myanmar)" and "Audio (Thailand)". — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 20:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Fytcha:, There is no Unicode font for Thai Mon vocabulary, so Thai Mon Audio is not included yet, I am still looking for a way to get in touch with the Unicode organization to get the Unicode code for Thai Mon. The Burma Mon and Thai Mon characters are different, the Thai Mon script is based on the Mon script of the 2nd century AD, The Thai Mon script has been used by a minority in Thailand since 1757. The Burma Mon script is the most widely used script in the world from 1921 to the present day, the Burma Mon script has been modified several times, to this day, our experts are still debating the revision of the Burma Mon script. Many Mon people fled due to the Mon-Burmese War of 1757, so today there are differences in Mon pronunciation from Mon language to region. Mon Tai and Mon Korean are terms that are difficult for most people to understand, so we have to think about Thai Mon Audio and Korean Mon Audio, Mon scholars working on wiki are Mon scholars from Burma, so they are not Mon Tai and Mon Korean so they have to avoid making mistakes, I am also a Mon scholar from Burma, but I have studied Korean so I have a moderate understanding of Mon Korean, I have studied and lived in Thailand, so I am fluent in Thai Mon, this ခၞာခၟာဲစာၚ် vocabulary that I wrote is not written in Thai Mon, so it does not need to include Thai Mon Audio, as a Mon scholar from Burma, I have a high level of expertise in Burma Mon script, thanks.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 21:33, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

We have only your assurance that you are a 'scholar'. Please try to understand that if everyone says this for the language that they know, anyone can add any fake word they want and no one can object. I am not saying this word doesn't exist, nor that you don't know the language. This is not specially for Mon. This is for all languages on Wiktionary.

Regarding your second point: "if you have any doubts about my translation, learn the Mon language yourself and your doubts will be cleared up". I am not pretending to be knowledgeable about Mon but this is not how Wiktionary works. Read Wiktionary:Requests for verification/Header. Once a request has been raised, as was raised by @Svartava2 a citation must be provided. This can even be a sentence from a book or magazine where this word is used, it doesn't have to be a dictionary only. Like in ရာန်.

Or if there is no reference, I will leave this discussion and let you be.

--Rishabhbhat (talk) 03:34, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

• Withdrawn —Svārtava ^{[t•c•u•r]} 16:54, 18 January 2022 (UTC)