Talk:ばれる

Blog post by 飯間浩明 on various possibilities. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 00:38, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Possible related terms -- 晴れる isn't one of them

@KisaragiAyami, I have reverted your addition of 晴れる (hareru) to the etymology as a possibly related term.

The blog post mentioned earlier describes the 晴れる (hareru) connection as being brought up 小野正弘, but then the blog author themselves discounts Ono's contention on semantic grounds -- which I happen to agree with.

The blog author then suggests a connection to various other words beginning with わ, but there is no basis I've ever seen for word-initial わ to shift to ば -- that just never happens in Japanese. In Japonic as a family, sure -- such as Okinawan. But not in mainland Japanese, and not at the shallow time depths where this term and its immediate relations such as ばらす (barasu) are first recorded.

The blog author returns to 晴れる (hareru) as 「妥当的」, but without providing any more justification -- they seem to fall back on that simply because they don't have anything else to turn to.

Notably, 晴れる (hareru) traces back to Old Japanese, and one of the oldest senses recorded is 「雲や霧が消え去ってなくなる」. Meanwhile, ばれる (bareru) only appears from the late 1600s, and the earliest sense recorded is 「あからさまな態度をとる。恥じらいのないことをする。」 Then in 1853 we also see 「雨などが降る。」 Neither is easily reconcilable with any sense of "clearing up", even with the pejorative voicing mentioned by Ono.

Ultimately, I can find no resource that suggests a relation, and the semantics of ばれる (bareru) and 晴れる (hareru) contra-indicate any cognacy. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 00:25, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

@Fish bowl:, see above. Ono does not seem to be in the right here. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 00:25, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

@Fish bowl, KisaragiAyami, if we can find a specific work by Ono that mentions this 晴れる (hareru) theory, I am not averse to mentioning it in the etymology with that ref, so long as we also describe why that theory is unlikely (semantics, historical timing, etc.).

For now, I'm going to re-revert Fish bowl's reversion.  :) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 16:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC)