Talk:三枚目
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Surjection in topic RFV discussion: October 2019–February 2021
The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
Does this word have the sense "antagonist; villain"? Such a usage is not found on Google. ᾨδή (talk) 02:37, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
@Eirikr ᾨδή (talk) 08:48, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- @ᾨδή: I based that on my local copy of the KDJ, which is the most in-depth dictionary that I'm aware of and that I have access to. That 三枚目 entry has the following definition (emphasis mine):
演劇、映画などで道化役や敵役（かたきやく）をする者。
- Checking elsewhere, I see that the Sekai Dai Hyakka Jiten entry over here on Kotobank adds a little more detail:
... 滑稽な敵役を〈三枚目敵（さんまいめがたき）〉と呼ぶ。
- So not just an antagonist, but specifically a comic antagonist. That said, the Zokugo Dai Jiten entry here on Weblio keeps the "comic" and "antagonist" role senses separate:
① 第（だい）三流所（りうどころ）の意から転じて、敵役（かたきやく）とか道化役者（だうけやくしや）のことをいふ。〔歌舞伎〕
...
③〔演〕敵役、又は道化役者のこと。
- The "antagonist" sense might be dated or historical rather than current, I have no particular data on that. @TAKASUGI Shinji might have more insight. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 15:45, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- Eirikr: I can see the second link give its source as 隠語大辞典, wherein interestingly it even has a meaning "屋根を破る窃盗犯". It sounds like an argot or something, as means 隠語. I guess this sense must have been of very limited usage and even native Japanese people may not have ever heard of it. I suggest leaving this sense out when writing a short definition in sections like "See also". ᾨδή (talk) 16:26, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- I personally didn’t know the “antagonist” sense. That must be obsolete and probably rare. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 23:03, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- TAKASUGI Shinji:, that sense already has labels for "dated" and "uncommon". Should that be changed? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:14, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
- I have never seen it and it may be rather “rare” than “uncommon”. We need some citations. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 08:11, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
- TAKASUGI Shinji:, that sense already has labels for "dated" and "uncommon". Should that be changed? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:14, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
- I personally didn’t know the “antagonist” sense. That must be obsolete and probably rare. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 23:03, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- Eirikr: I can see the second link give its source as 隠語大辞典, wherein interestingly it even has a meaning "屋根を破る窃盗犯". It sounds like an argot or something, as means 隠語. I guess this sense must have been of very limited usage and even native Japanese people may not have ever heard of it. I suggest leaving this sense out when writing a short definition in sections like "See also". ᾨδή (talk) 16:26, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- Apparently resolved, as the questioned sense no longer exists. — surjection ⟨??⟩ 18:14, 8 February 2021 (UTC)