Talk:刈り立て
Latest comment: 12 years ago by Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV in topic 刈り立て
The following information has failed Wiktionary's deletion process.
It should not be re-entered without careful consideration.
This seems to me to be a pretty clear derivation of 刈る plus the suffix たて, which is always written in hiragana anyway, not like this. Unless this is idiomatic? --Haplology (talk) 04:31, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- I'd say to delete it because it is simply a sum of its parts. To be safe, I consulted two dictionaries, 大言海 and デジタル大辞泉, looking for idiomatic senses, and found no entry either for 刈り立て or 刈りたて --Whym (talk) 07:13, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- Delete -- simple SOP. Any verb stem + たて (tate) means "just [verbed]". Nothing idiomatic about this particular 刈り + たて combo. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 20:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- I found 136 hits on Google Books. Casually looking through them, two catch my eye:
- In both cases, it seems this has the same meaning as 刈る rather than "just [pp]". Either way, an entry is needed for -たてる and -立てる. --BB12 (talk) 21:12, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- Actually, both cases appear to forms of what would be compound verb 刈り立てる, i.e. "to cut something and then stand it up vertically". I cannot get Google's search feature to give me any more context (searching on the book page itself seems to fail for any search string), and the hit strings appearing in the summary list of search hits have what appear to be scannos ("高さ三〜五 V の一群": a group with a height of 3-5 Vs?? "手にバ V カンを持って" hold a ba V kan in the hand?), so I'm not entirely sure how much weight to give these. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 21:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- Good point! I say delete (but add -たてる and -立てる). --BB12 (talk) 21:37, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- 刈り立てる means to cut something like dense grass (such as leaves and hair) to have a vertical shape. Not to confuse with 駆り立てる. And they must be "高さ三〜五m" (メートル) and "バリカン". — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 05:10, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- Good point! I say delete (but add -たてる and -立てる). --BB12 (talk) 21:37, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- Actually, both cases appear to forms of what would be compound verb 刈り立てる, i.e. "to cut something and then stand it up vertically". I cannot get Google's search feature to give me any more context (searching on the book page itself seems to fail for any search string), and the hit strings appearing in the summary list of search hits have what appear to be scannos ("高さ三〜五 V の一群": a group with a height of 3-5 Vs?? "手にバ V カンを持って" hold a ba V kan in the hand?), so I'm not entirely sure how much weight to give these. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 21:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
- Delete: sum of parts. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 05:10, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- At TAKASUGI Shinji: You say that 刈り立てる means cut something like grass to have a vertical shape. Doesn't that mean 刈り立て needs to stay as a form of 刈り立てる? --BB12 (talk) 05:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- @ Takasugi-san -- Thank you for the clarification of the verb meaning, and for solving the riddle of the scannos.
- @ Benjamin -- I'm clearly not Takasugi-san, but given my understanding of basic policy, yes, if 刈り立てる is a valid verb, albeit somewhat rare, then the 刈り立て page could stay as a form of that verb. The def would need rewriting in this case. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- Generally form-of pages aren't made for Japanese, certainly if the entry is only a form of a lemma and not a lemma in itself. I've seen a few but not many and the lemma doesn't link to them. Do I understand correctly that there's no prohibition against them, or any opposition? I don't mind them myself but I have enough work to do on the lemmas without making non-idiomatic form-of pages. But...if somebody made a script to write all of the form-of pages and batch uploaded them, that would be fine? A good thing even? I'm asking everyone's opinion. With a little Python it shouldn't be too hard... --Haplology (talk) 16:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, my understanding (and please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong) is that there's no dictum against having form-of pages, but also that there's no dictum requiring us to create them. My own thought for Japanese is that verb conjugation tables should suffice, but if a page already exists like 刈り立て, I'd rather that we rework it into a form-of page instead of deleting it. But I don't think it's a real biggie either way. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- "Generally form-of pages aren't made for Japanese" They should be, IMO though. :p Probably not all of the forms listed in the tables though, like how we don't include (deprecated template usage) aurai donné et al. for French verbs. 50 Xylophone Players talk 01:43, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe they should. In the past I've found EDICT's form-of entries to be very helpful when I didn't recognize that a certain form was a certain conjugation or declension of another word. --Haplology (talk) 06:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- "Generally form-of pages aren't made for Japanese" They should be, IMO though. :p Probably not all of the forms listed in the tables though, like how we don't include (deprecated template usage) aurai donné et al. for French verbs. 50 Xylophone Players talk 01:43, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, my understanding (and please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong) is that there's no dictum against having form-of pages, but also that there's no dictum requiring us to create them. My own thought for Japanese is that verb conjugation tables should suffice, but if a page already exists like 刈り立て, I'd rather that we rework it into a form-of page instead of deleting it. But I don't think it's a real biggie either way. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- Generally form-of pages aren't made for Japanese, certainly if the entry is only a form of a lemma and not a lemma in itself. I've seen a few but not many and the lemma doesn't link to them. Do I understand correctly that there's no prohibition against them, or any opposition? I don't mind them myself but I have enough work to do on the lemmas without making non-idiomatic form-of pages. But...if somebody made a script to write all of the form-of pages and batch uploaded them, that would be fine? A good thing even? I'm asking everyone's opinion. With a little Python it shouldn't be too hard... --Haplology (talk) 16:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- At TAKASUGI Shinji: You say that 刈り立てる means cut something like grass to have a vertical shape. Doesn't that mean 刈り立て needs to stay as a form of 刈り立てる? --BB12 (talk) 05:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
- Deleted. — Ungoliant (Falai) 05:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)