Talk:Hong Kong

Xianggang

I am not trying to rename the city or open a pandora's box. These variants ekkkxist in English, are well known and they are worth mentioning. The name Xianggang is also common for street and company names in China. Google produces 1,150,000 English pages for Xianggang. Anatoli 02:27, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course Chinese words are common for street and company names in China. And Chinese is often written in Pinyin, with or without tones, so Google hits are only to be expected. But I have never heard of it being used as an English word, and have never read it anywhere. Before you can claim that it’s an English word, you have to prove it with suitable written references. As far as I’m concerned, it is Chinese and nothing but Chinese. —Stephen 20:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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Hong Kong

User:Atitarev claims that Hsiang Kang and Xianggang are English synonyms for Hong Kong. As far as I know, they are Chinese, not English. I don’t know of anyone who would understand these names unless they knew Chinese. —Stephen 20:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Stephen. These variants exist in English, are well known and they are worth mentioning, in my opinion. The name Xianggang or Xiang Gang is also common for street, company and organisation names in China. Google produces 1,150,000 English pages for Xianggang. Many of them will just explain the pinyin romanisation, of course but having "Hong Kong (Xianggang)" or "Hong Kong - Xianggang" is far too common to be ignored. Since Hong Kongers are too sensitive to their city being called Xianggang, it's worth mentioning that it is controversial. I added one link to my claim: Variants or Chinese of Hong Kong - Merriam-Webster dictionary. At any rate, if my claim proves to be wrong, I'd like to have an authoritative statement that Xianggang is NOT an English variant of "Hong Kong" with some explanations and proof in "Hong Kong". --Anatoli 21:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

So you think the Chinese name their streets and companies with English names? Of course the streets and companies in China use Chinese words to name them. I don’t believe anyone who doesn’t know Chinese will use or understand Xianggang or Hsiang Kang. In English, Xianggang Street means a street named Xianggang, and is not understood to be Hong Kong Street.

You cannot prove negatives, you have to prove positives. This means that it is YOU who must prove that Xianggang and Hsiang Kang are English synonyms for Hong Kong. We do not have to prove that they are NOT. The burden is on you. The fact that the Chinese use Xianggang to mean Hong Kong only supports the widely held theory that the Chinese speak Chinese. —Stephen 22:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I don’t believe anyone who doesn’t know Chinese will use or understand Xianggang this is not true, I am the refutation of that as is БСЭ. Its entry for the city of Xianggang is Сянган in volume 25, p. 156. Гонконг is listed only as an alternative. And note that the volumes were issued some 20 years before the transition of the city to PRC when the USSR-PRC relations were on the brink of war. The Russians know notwithstanding how to title their entries. Xianggang is the veritable name, HK is an obsolete vestige from colonial times (also to note that my understanding of Chinese is limited to a couple of Hanzis). Bogorm 22:25, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

When I say anyone in the context of the English Wiktionary, I mean native Americans, Australians, British, Canadians, and New Zealanders; in particular, Americans. You don’t fall in this category. Native English speakers very rarely have the linguistic sophistication that one finds commonly in places such as Holland and Germany. If you say that Xianggang is German or Bulgarian, that is fine with me. It’s not English. As for what the people in Hong Kong want to call their city in Chinese or Mandarin, that is their business, and everybody who learn Chinese or Mandarin must respect their call. The name in English is the business of those whose native language is English, and we don’t have to bow to the dictates of foreigners who would have us speak otherwise. You can’t use the name Xianggang in English without defining it unless you are speaking to an audience that knows Chinese. "What's the time is Xianggang now" is a question intended for someone who knows Chinese. —Stephen 17:32, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Some quotes of usage from travel sites, dating agencies, blogs, etc. some websites are in China or in Russia (where Xianggang is favoured), also some where Xianggang precedes Hong Kong:

• We hope that our compatriots in Xianggang and Aomen and Chinese nationals residing abroad will continue to act in the role of a bridge and contribute their...
• What's the time in Xianggang now?
• Dating in Xianggang · Online personals from Xianggang · Female personals from Xianggang
• Legal consultation by law firms in Xianggang China
• Off the Beaten Path in Xianggang (0 Reviews - 0 Photos)
• Maplandia.com in partnership with Booking.com offers highly competitive rates for all types of hotels in Xianggang, from affordable family hotels to the ...
• Cities in Xianggang SAR. Hong Kong
• Stephen Hawking in Xianggang
• Learn the cost of LASIK laser eye surgery in Xianggang - Hong Kong
• Notes: Proceedings from Zhongguo yu wen jiao xue yen tao hui held May 6, 1995 in Xianggang. Includes bibliographical references. ...
• St. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox parish will be established in Xianggang (Hong Kong).
• For those going abroad or to Xianggang Hong Kong or Aomen Macao to pay official visits, visit relatives, travel, work or study, the maximum limit of ... --Anatoli 22:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
• The Chinese allowed the British to stay in Xianggang (Hong Kong) because
• Painted lacquer screens — like the one excavated in 1983 in Xianggang, Guangzhou, Guangdong province, ...
• Add placemark to Xianggang.
• Airports close to Xianggang
• Shenzhen, China's Most Successful Special Economic Zone, lies adjacent to Xianggang (Hong Kong), one of the economic "tigers" of the Pacific Rim

Thank you, Bogorm, but we are talking about English, not Russian. What do you say about the Merriam-Webster entry and the above quotes? --Anatoli 22:52, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The citations speak for themselves. Here is my answer based on MW - if the word has its own entry in MW, then it has it here too, MW is not Urban Dictionary. Bogorm 22:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The issue is sensitive, especially for some HKers (similar to Aomen, Taibei, Gaoxiong, etc.), let's wait for Stephen's answer and others. Note that the Wikipedia Xianggang article (linked in your edit) is a redirect to Hong Kong. Hong Kong is far more common in English, even if the usage of Xianggang is on the increase. Stephen, I don't deny the burden is on me or people who support the idea, I meant that I WOULD LIKE to have something about the sensitivity of the name "Hong Kong" vs "Xianggang". It's something I am asking for, not demanding. Anatoli 23:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

• For what it's worth, I don't know these terms and have never seen them. Ƿidsiþ 19:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

• These spellings are showing up in American grade school textbooks. They aren't widely known (yet), but that's not a requirement for inclusion. The fact that they're being used, and that someone might want to look them up, is sufficient. --EncycloPetey 18:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Kept Xianggang, with clean-up and {{rfquote}}; removed Hsiang Kang. —Ruakh_TALK 20:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Etymology: "irregular romanization"

Some sources on the internet seem to claim that it is not from an "irregular romanization", but that it comes from the Tankas' dialect of Cantonese. —suzukaze (t・c) 03:54, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Additionally, instead of being irregular it could be an older regular (or at least somewhat regular, though maybe defective) romanisation similar to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Japanese#Historical_romanizations , maybe cp. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Chinese#Missionary_systems . -84.161.27.215 04:17, 12 February 2018 (UTC)