Talk:androides

RFV discussion: July 2024

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androides

Latin. --21:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Aglia androides (syn. of Aglia tau (tau emperor butterfly), but the only instance of androides in the Catalogue of Life. DCDuring (talk) 22:51, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

There is an example here: " Quibus argumentis probatur, belluas non esse automata inanimata? Quare bruta operari dici nequeunt ad instar androidum ab hominibus confectarum?" = "With which arguments is it proved, that beasts are not inanimate automatons? Why cannot irrational animals be said to function after the fashion of [androids?] made by men? (Elementa psychologiæ ad usum alumnorum seminarii Sylvæ-Ducensis, 1856, page 123)--Urszag (talk) 07:10, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I didn't investigate in which European languages androide/androides etc. were used, but it seems they were used in a few during the 18/19th(?) centuries to refer to devices that did something that only humans were thought capable of. There might be some use for a historical definition, but in each language in which it is attested or can it be assumed to be Latin? DCDuring (talk) 18:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

[1] has encyclopaedical entries from 1837 till 1905 with senses like automaton in human form.
Two things to consider:

• Could the Latin term be an adjective like Greek ἀνδροειδής (androeidḗs, “in the form of a man”)?
• Is a noun with feminine gender attested?

--93.234.200.97 19:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

The first use I can find is in 'Le mastigophore, ou, Precurseur du Zodiaque' by Antoine Fuzy. The only version I found is tanslated from a latin original and the term is used to describe Albertus Magnus' automaton (a sort of divining golem refered as a talking-head) later used as the de facto illustration of the word in 'Apologie pour tous les grands personnages qui ont esté faussement soupçonnez de magie' and 'Cyclopædia: Or, an Universal Dictionary of Arts and Sciences' by Ephraim Chambers. The word is thus rightly attested in latin use (though perhaps not its first use) before it being taken up by later french and english-speaking writers. Tim Utikal (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't look like a Latin attestion; a French translation ([2] & [3] having French Androide?) of a Latin work is unlikely to attest a Latin term with it's Latin genders. --93.234.200.97 21:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

In both french works the word is feminine, even though you're right in saying it doesn't attest its use nor its gender. Tim Utikal (talk) 06:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

There are 18th-century attestations in Latin texts talking about Albertus Magnus. I updated the entry. All of the examples I found so far seem to be feminine.--Urszag (talk) 07:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

In the quoted passage from Elementa psychologiæ, it seems to me that we have the neuter singular accusative form of an adjective *androidus. One would expect ad instar androides: “in android shape”.  --Lambiam 20:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

A genitive plural matches the number of the preceding noun "bruta" and the case and number of the following participle "confectarum"; it also makes sense syntactically after "ad instar", which is an idiomatic expression that Lewis and Short defines as as "According to the likeness of, after the fashion of, like" and describes as "Ad instar, with gen." Compare "ad instar castrorum clauditur" (in L&S), and Apuleius' use of "ad instar oratorum", "ad instar fluminum", "ad instar syllabarum", "ad instar animarum".--Urszag (talk) 02:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

"bruta" has syntacticly nothing to do with "androidum [...] confectarum" beside being itself a nominative neuter plural so I have troubles understanding your point. Though, if you only meant it, you're right saying androides is here in fact feminine or we would have got "androidum [...] confectorum" if neuter or masculine. Tim Utikal (talk) 06:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

There is no requirement for grammatical agreement with "bruta" but it makes more sense when speaking of animals in general to compare them to "androids" rather than to a singular "android".--Urszag (talk) 07:29, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Cited with multiple quotes, so marking this as RFV-passed unless someone wants to challenge all of them.--Urszag (talk) 03:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)