Talk:baharia
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@Fay Freak: I'm not convinced, as this does not explain the /i/. The true answer may be lurking in dialectal Omani Arabic. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:00, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge True, it is perhaps from Omani Arabic (or sometimes nautical words are from Yemeni like رَمَث (ramaṯ)). In Literary Arabic there is also a بَحْرِيّ (baḥriyy, “seaman, Matrose”) which has an irregular plural بَحْرِيَّة (baḥriyya). (Is ia an inflectional ending that disappears in other forms?) Fay Freak (talk) 09:55, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: I am not suggesting an Omani origin because they are nautical; I am suggesting it because nearly all the Arabic in Swahili is from Omani Arabic rather than Literary Arabic. As for the inflection, it is all in the entry. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:51, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge I thought maybe Swahili uses all kinds of endings and needs inflection tables and -ia ist just one of the endings like Arabic -un – so it doesn’t?
- I have also created بَحْرِيَّة (baḥriyya, “navy”), maybe it is from a collective.
- I can only suggest, my endeavour for Bantu can’t be to convince, بَحَّار (baḥḥār) looks like a good match though because it means “sailor” and because Literary Arabic is the Dachsprache (like for Ibero-Romance it is good if we state the High Arabic and we do not write “From Andalusi Arabic”). Fay Freak (talk) 17:04, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: In Bantu languages, inflection is almost always at the beginning of a word, rather than its end. I agree that it is better in general to give the "High Arabic", but there are sometimes cases where the word itself does not make that possible, and this may well be one of them. I lack access to an Omani Arabic dictionary, but ultimately one will have to be consulted. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:23, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: I have looked a bit what even exists on Omani Arabic, not to speak of availability. The article on Omani Arabic in the EALL only has some journal articles in its bibliography and confirms in a section State of current research that there are only summaries about this dialect. Richard J. Davey (2016) Coastal Dhofari Arabic (Studies in Semitic languages and linguistics; 87), Brill contains only unspecific references (like Wehr’s dictionary) or very particularistic treatises. So unless a wild native speaker appears we are forsaken in regard to Omani Arabic. Fay Freak (talk) 19:46, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: That is deeply disappointing. I checked Coastal Dhofari Arabic and it only has those words which are collated in the Wortatlas, which does not have "sailor". I do appreciate the work you do on High Arabic, but I have often wanted to embark on a project of adding mass amounts of dialectal forms, using a format similar to Unified Chinese, which I think has been very successful. It would be a great addition to the dictionary, and along the way we might find that the scattered data solve problems like this. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:33, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: I have looked a bit what even exists on Omani Arabic, not to speak of availability. The article on Omani Arabic in the EALL only has some journal articles in its bibliography and confirms in a section State of current research that there are only summaries about this dialect. Richard J. Davey (2016) Coastal Dhofari Arabic (Studies in Semitic languages and linguistics; 87), Brill contains only unspecific references (like Wehr’s dictionary) or very particularistic treatises. So unless a wild native speaker appears we are forsaken in regard to Omani Arabic. Fay Freak (talk) 19:46, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: In Bantu languages, inflection is almost always at the beginning of a word, rather than its end. I agree that it is better in general to give the "High Arabic", but there are sometimes cases where the word itself does not make that possible, and this may well be one of them. I lack access to an Omani Arabic dictionary, but ultimately one will have to be consulted. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:23, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge A year later I know that the nautical occupations all tend to have the plural in -iyya in the dialects, including the Gulf Arabic of today. Fay Freak (talk) 21:14, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: I am not suggesting an Omani origin because they are nautical; I am suggesting it because nearly all the Arabic in Swahili is from Omani Arabic rather than Literary Arabic. As for the inflection, it is all in the entry. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:51, 14 August 2018 (UTC)