Talk:berry blue

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berry blue

Berry Blue

There are no citations supporting any sense other than the commonsense SOP meaning “the blue of berries.” Previous discussion at WT:TR#berry blue. —Michael Z. 2013-06-01 15:28 z

• Close: attested in three references spanning 15 years Purplebackpack89 ^{(Notes Taken) (Locker)} 16:05, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Not so fast. These are all brand names, so we need to consider the requirements of WT:BRAND. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
    • See below comment. Each citation passes WT:BRAND Purplebackpack89 ^{(Notes Taken) (Locker)} 17:34, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Yes, every citation is for "Berry Blue"; none so far for "berry blue". SemperBlotto (talk) 16:30, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
    • So? Keep it anyway. They aren't all for the same product, though. It's like rocky road in that respect. And Chuck, none of the citations are associated with the products. We've got a cookbook and two magazine articles, therefore all three of the citations pass WT:BRAND Purplebackpack89 ^{(Notes Taken) (Locker)} 16:31, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Looks like a pass but moving to Berry Blue seems reasonable. Even if WT:BRAND does apply, these would seem to pass it. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

This is not cited until there are three citations supporting the definition. No citation says or implies that this is the name of an artificial flavouring.

Also, these citations are not independent uses, they are quotations of product packaging copy. Nos. 1 and 3 are referring directly to the same Jell-O product. No. 2 is for a product marketing title Yoplait Berry Blue Blast Gogurt. These are two independent marketing flavour names, using the plain English words berry and blue, strung together to fool shoppers into believing the product has something to do with blueberries. —Michael Z. 2013-06-02 21:07 z

“[N]one of the citations are associated with the products” – huh? How can you possibly miss the Jell-O product name in quotations 1 and 3? —Michael Z. 2013-06-02 21:52 z

Doesn't matter unless it was actually printed by Jell-O or if Jell-O paid to get it printed. Please stop being disruptive and realize that this is going to get kept. Purplebackpack89 ^{(Notes Taken) (Locker)} 17:53, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I can't see anything in WT:BRAND that says that Berry Blue and Jell-O can't appear in the same citation. It says that the citation "any parties with economic interest in the brand, including the manufacturer, distributors, retailers, marketers, and advertisers, their parent companies, subsidiaries, and affiliates" but Jell-O isn't any of these; it's another product. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Jell-O is a Kraft brand. It is appears prominently on gelatin powder and many other products instead of the company name. Citation no. 3 also mentions “Kraft Foods” and parent “Philip Morris” specifically.

Here: let me read WT:BRAND to you, since everyone seems to have a hard time getting past the first bullet point. An independent citation:

• “must not identify” the “manufacturer, distributors, retailers, marketers, and advertisers, their parent companies, subsidiaries, and affiliates, at time of authorship.”
• “must not be written [. . .] about any person or group specifically associated with the product or service; or about the type of product or service in general”
• “The text preceding and surrounding the citation must not identify the product or service to which the brand name applies”

Independent really means that it stands alone representing its definition.

Which leads me to repeat, broken-record-wise, that none of these citations supports the definition that either Berry Blue or Berry Blue Blast is “an artificial flavouring,” as if it was a specific formula. “Jell-O Brand Berry Blue (Artificial Flavor) Gelatin Dessert” and “Yoplait Berry Blue Blast Gogurt” are names of flavours of the products, just like “Jell-O Brand Pistachio (Artificial Flavor) Instant Pudding” and “Yoplait Cherry Eclipse Gogurt.” The citations aren’t even for nouns, but adjectives.

This is simply berry, attributive noun, + blue, adjective, + (blast, noun). —Michael Z. 2013-06-05 21:53 z

See also Wacky Watermelon. —Michael Z. 2013-06-06 19:06 z

I disagree that these are adjectival citations. I agree that Berry Blue Blast is a separate thing so that citation shouldn't count. But foods are often used attributively as mass nouns, a 'wheat biscuit' doesn't justify an adjective section for wheat just because it's modifying the noun biscuit. If I could be bothered, I'd just delete the content of the entry and replace it with something sensible based on citations, but I can't, it's just too low priority for me. If someone else has the stomach to do it, please do. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I think you’re right, and I have consolidated the entry under Berry Blue#Noun. What about the citations in l.c. berry blue#Adjective?

Would someone please remove the Berry Blue Blast citation? —Michael Z. 2013-06-26 05:48 z

Citations for an uncapitalized sense of a generic color:

• 2010, Adriann Bautista, Sanctuary of Snow, page 157:

  Or the wonderment in not 1 but 2 rainbows as they cap off a berry blue sky now void of thick heavy rain clouds.

• 2010, A LaFaye, Nissa's Place, page 132:

  The washstand had white linen towels and a berry blue pitcher and basin.

• 2010, Guillermo Del Toro, Chuck Hogan, The Strain, page 325:

  People get nervous about poison, especially parents, but the truth is that rat poison is all over every building and street in Manhattan. Anything you see that resembles berry blue Pop Rocks or green kibble, you know rats have been spotted nearby.

• 2009, Amanda Little, Power Trip: From Oil Wells to Solar Cells---Our Ride to the Renewable Future, page 350:

  Two blocks away from the 5-mile-long Industrial Canal that links Lake Pontchartrain to the Mississippi River, a cluster of new, candy-colored homes—lemon yellow, tangerine, berry blue—on 8-foot stilts rises up from narrow grassy lots, adorning the scarred landscape like jewels in ash.

• 2007, M. M. Etheridge, Hannah: Woman in Red, page 69:

  Hannah, clad in her berry-blue cloak, quietly slipped into the space next to Jess.

• 2007, Jason Murk, Tokharian Tales, page 248:

  “It's good coffee, isn't it?” says Martin, and he's got good taste, he drinks huckleberry coffee from Montana, he drinks bits of morning berry blue in his coffee as if they're flecks from the Big Sky itself.

Cheers! bd2412 T 17:17, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

With respect to the capitalized form, I am in agreement with User:Mzajac. None of the citations provided are independent enough to satisfy WT:BRAND. bd2412 T 19:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Striking berry blue as verified and Berry Blue as deleted. bd2412 T 19:27, 22 September 2013 (UTC)