Talk:ichikara
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I found "ichikara" is only used in the context of two particular idioms, therefore it is a sum of its parts which does not constitute a term which needs independent definition. — This unsigned comment was added by Mighty Bazooka (talk • contribs) at 11:22, 28 July 2013 (UTC).
- That's not sum of parts as it's apparently a single word. A bit like the parce in parce que which doesn't have any meaning. Since it's a Romaji without a Japanese script form, can't we just speedy delete it like we do for pinyin without Chinese characters forms? Mglovesfun (talk) 16:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- Looking at ALC, which is a niche search engine of Japanese-English translations, I can find cases where it is used by itself, such as "何でも一から作る" or "make everything from scratch." Yet I agree with the conclusion that it is a sum of its parts, because "ichi" can mean the beginning of something, making it "from" + "the beginning of an endeavor" or more naturally "from scratch." The mainstream dictionaries Daijien and Shogakukan do not include an entry for ichikara, so it seems that they thought so too. The anon who added it may have been looking at one of the foreigner-friendly dictionaries which include terms that border on mini-translations. I assume the two idioms being referred to are 一からやり直す and 一から十まで. By the same reasoning, the first one would also the the sum of its parts (literally, re-think from the beginning) but the second one (literally, from one to ten) is a genuine idiom because that "ichi" is in the sense of the number one and means "from A to Z." So, in short, thanks for catching that and yes, delete. --Haplology (talk) 17:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- That may be a sum of parts but 一 means a beginning only when followed by から. A usage note will be necessary. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 03:53, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- A usage note would be a good idea, yes. However, I also have encountered other grammatical instances of 一 (ichi) used to mean beginning, such as 一に戻る (ichi ni modoru). FWIW, this might be seen as analogous to English zero in phrases such as restart from zero, back to zero. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 18:05, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- That may be a sum of parts but 一 means a beginning only when followed by から. A usage note will be necessary. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 03:53, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- Looking at ALC, which is a niche search engine of Japanese-English translations, I can find cases where it is used by itself, such as "何でも一から作る" or "make everything from scratch." Yet I agree with the conclusion that it is a sum of its parts, because "ichi" can mean the beginning of something, making it "from" + "the beginning of an endeavor" or more naturally "from scratch." The mainstream dictionaries Daijien and Shogakukan do not include an entry for ichikara, so it seems that they thought so too. The anon who added it may have been looking at one of the foreigner-friendly dictionaries which include terms that border on mini-translations. I assume the two idioms being referred to are 一からやり直す and 一から十まで. By the same reasoning, the first one would also the the sum of its parts (literally, re-think from the beginning) but the second one (literally, from one to ten) is a genuine idiom because that "ichi" is in the sense of the number one and means "from A to Z." So, in short, thanks for catching that and yes, delete. --Haplology (talk) 17:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- Delete, per above. SOP. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 18:05, 29 July 2013 (UTC)