Talk:nothing ball

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nothing ball

Seems like nothing + ball to me. The two definitions are actually examples of possible ways to use this collocation, rather than actual definitions. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:09, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

• I'm fairly sure the definition of "nothing ball" in baseball is more complicated than that, but I don't know enough about baseball to say. Jnestorius 16:14, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

A "pitch" with "nothing on it" would seem likely to exhaust the matter in baseball, unless you have citations that show otherwise. DCDuring TALK 18:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't seem like SOP to me. How is someone supposed to divine that nothing ball means a pitch with no special speed or spin rather than, for example, a ball with its outer hide worn away or a pitch that does not pass through the strike zone? Keep, I think.​—msh210℠ (talk) 18:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

• I originally intended to add an example of attributive use to nothing's noun sense #1 "Something trifling, or of no consequence or importance", which is what is familiar to me from "nothing ball" in soccer. Googling, I was struck by the fact that, in baseball, "nothing ball" is different: apparently attributive use of pronoun sense #2 "An absence of anything". The fact that this was not obvious made me think it is idiomatic rather than merely collocational. I've checked COCA and BNC and attributive use of "nothing" is rare in any sense but those that are there are in the "trivial" sense. So I suggest keeping the baseball sense and moving the other to nothing. I don't know what the standard is for distinguishing attributive uses of a noun from others; do you just add a quote showing that it can be done or do you make it a subsense? Jnestorius 19:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep as idiomatic with widely different meanings in different sports. DAVilla 05:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Per one of the deletion debates above, sometimes when a collocation has widely varying meanings it's because the components have lots of different meanings. The fact that there are so many meanings shows that it isn't a set phrase, but rather nothing followed directly by ball. Still, I could change my mind about this in the face of evidence - anyone got any? Mglovesfun (talk) 13:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

These are not just widely varying meanings, they are specific meanings within the context of a particular sport. At least the baseball one is. I'm not sure what "attacking threat" is supposed to mean in the second, or which sports it's supposed to apply to. DAVilla 04:47, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep. Even knowing the meanings of nothing and ball, I still had no idea what the term meant.--Dmol 22:24, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep the first definition, possibly also the second, per msh210 and Dmol. I know what "nothing" and "ball" mean and had no idea what "nothing ball" meant. The prior knowledge test may apply. - -sche 03:40, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I still don't get it, but what the hey. Kept. Mglovesfun (talk) 00:14, 21 March 2011 (UTC)