Talk:shoot oneself in the foot

RFV discussion

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Rfv-sense: (idiom) To deliberately self-sabotage. I haven't heard this use and didn't see it in the course of citing the idiomatic sense of "blundering, accidental self-destructive behavior". There are numerous unnecessary citations available for literally shooting oneself in the foot, both accidentally and intentionally. DCDuring TALK 17:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

BTW are the other two senses not identical to each other? If so, why not? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

The first means to sabotage something in one's own interest. The second means to act against one's own interest. The third is to do the same but unintentionally. Pingku 21:09, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

RFV failed, sense removed. BTW, I agree with Mglovesfun: the two remaining senses seem the same to me. —Ruakh_TALK 20:46, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

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shoot oneself in the foot

Neither of the definitions seem entirely correct, or well written. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Definition 1 seems more like an etymology, though it may just be a folk etymology. I think of cases such as the NY Giant football player, w:Plaxico Burress#Accidental shooting, who simultaneously literally shot himself in the thigh at a nightclub and figuratively shot himself in the foot by breaking the law in a way that could not be covered up. I associate an element of blundering clumsiness with this idiom. DCDuring TALK 15:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Another possible example (written up in secret of Polichinelle) is: "It is said that Polst fell because he revealed in an unlucky interview the Secret of Polichinelle, the secret which all the world knew, the secret that there was a claque at the Metropolitan Opera House." Pingku 16:25, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

As clumsiness and intent are important to this IMHO, it would be necessary to know more about the incident. DCDuring TALK 17:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Insomuch as it might be an example of "shooting oneself in the foot", the citation seems to be a judgement about someone else's action, so the "intent" is a subjective consideration. The imputation seems to be of bad judgement (diplomatically described as bad luck) on the part of the person making the mistake. Pingku 19:50, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I have added and cited a third sense: "accidental self-sabotage", which is the only idiomatic sense I am aware of. I've never heard of this being used as an idiom to refer to intentional self-sabotage and have accordingly RfVed the second sense. If it does not survive then the literal first sense doesn't even belong in an etymology. DCDuring TALK 17:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry to break it to you but all of the above is wrong in a historical sense. The phrase "to shoot oneself in the foot" derives from the Great War (WW1), where a soldier would deliberately shoot himself in the foot to avoid having to go "over the top" to certain death. It is, therefore, cowardly act that involves self-harm and pain as an alternative to something much worse. Unfortunately, the phrase has been badly misused over the many years since it was first coined and has now been taken to mean a blunder. It doesn't involve anything accidental, but is deliberate self-sabotage, something even Plaxico Burress isn't stupid enough to undertake. [17 September, 2010 - B Mathieson] — This comment was unsigned.

The literal sense is not in itself dictionary-worthy as it has no meaning apart from its components. How the idiomatic sense came about could perhaps be traced through the written record. Getting some citations of all the senses would be helpful. DCDuring TALK 10:59, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

OK now? -- Prince Kassad 10:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)