Proto-Finnic k-stems

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Proto-Finnic k-stems

I don't remember if this came up before, but looking at Lua error in Module:parameters at line 360: Parameter 1 should be a valid language or etymology language code; the value "fiu-fin-pro" is not valid. See WT:LOL and WT:LOL/E., it seems your declension module is attempting to treat this as equivalent to a vowel stem **perseke-. The partitive, however, should be *persettä (or, since we are keeping *kt and *ht separate, perhaps rather *persektä). Possibly the same should go for even the essive, though this is hard to say, being a rare case it has been analogically modified in several languages.

Tropylium (talk)22:45, 23 March 2015

I noticed this just a few days ago, but I wasn't sure if this should also apply to two-syllable stems like Lua error in Module:parameters at line 360: Parameter 1 should be a valid language or etymology language code; the value "fiu-fin-pro" is not valid. See WT:LOL and WT:LOL/E.. The only two-syllable stems ending in -ke- that have syncope, at least that I know of, are Lua error in Module:parameters at line 360: Parameter 1 should be a valid language or etymology language code; the value "fiu-fin-pro" is not valid. See WT:LOL and WT:LOL/E. and Lua error in Module:parameters at line 360: Parameter 1 should be a valid language or etymology language code; the value "fiu-fin-pro" is not valid. See WT:LOL and WT:LOL/E.. So what should be done in this case?

CodeCat00:18, 24 March 2015

Those seem to be exceptions, yes. Words like *mäki usually do not have any consonant-stem forms. It seems like this is a question of syllable count: there are no trisyllabic *e-stems, and aside from Lua error in Module:parameters at line 360: Parameter 1 should be a valid language or etymology language code; the value "fiu-fin-pro" is not valid. See WT:LOL and WT:LOL/E. no monosyllabic "pure" consonant stems.

Tropylium (talk)07:04, 26 March 2015

I guess that's the problem then. The module currently doesn't distinguish between consonant and e-stems, nor does it really consider the number of syllables. Of course that's partly a matter of practicality; these all fell together in Finnic for the most part due to syncope and apocope.

There are some trisyllabic stems that we know used to be e-stems, though. These are the ones that show assibilation of -t > -c in the nominative singular, like the ordinal numbers and the words of the Finnish kalleus type. These contrast with kevät and tuhat which have no assibilation and thus were presumably true consonant stems.

The module itself tells these apart through the parameter given to it: if it includes the final -e as part of the stem or not. If it's included, it's syncopated/apocopated by the module in the appropriate places, but triggers assibilation beforehand. If it's not included, epenthetic -e- is added in the appropriate places, but there is no apocope and therefore no assibilation. This behaviour can presumably be used for k-stems: it can be made so that -kt- does not get epenthesized to -ket- in the partitive, but -ket- does not get syncopated to -kt- either. That way, the correct partitive is used for the consonantal k-stems and also for the two-syllable e-stems like Lua error in Module:parameters at line 360: Parameter 1 should be a valid language or etymology language code; the value "fiu-fin-pro" is not valid. See WT:LOL and WT:LOL/E.; these simply have stems in -k- and -ke- respectively.

The two exceptional verbs are treated as an exception in the module: if the stem equals näke- or teke-, then syncopate -ket- to -kt-. This rule seems to work, but it does beg the larger question of why this happened in Finnic in the first place, while other stems like make- were unaffected.

CodeCat14:42, 26 March 2015