Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/*kāsijaz

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Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/*kāsijaz

The entry for *kāsijaz was originally placed under Proto-Germanic since I found descendants for this word in the North Germanic languages. Here is an article by Guus Kroonen where the author discusses a reflexes of Proto-Germanic *kāsijaz existing in North Germanic languages on page 21. (https://web.archive.org/web/20171110004825/http://nors.ku.dk/ansatte/?pure=files/35220983/elfdalian.pdf). The original entry for *kāsijaz included these descendants in the entry so I have no idea why you decided to move the entry to West Germanic.

Rigognos Molinarios (talk)16:44, 18 June 2020

Ringe gives it as a borrowing from Latin into West Germanic.

Rua (mew)16:51, 18 June 2020
 

Additionally, I have just looked through Kroonen 2013 right now and as I originally suspected, the author cites North Germanic descendants of Proto-Germanic *kāsijaz on page 275 [1]

References[edit]

  1. ^ Kroonen, Guus (2013) “*kāsja-”, in Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Germanic (Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary Series; 11), Leiden, Boston: Brill, →ISBN, page 275
Rigognos Molinarios (talk)16:54, 18 June 2020
 

I suggest checking the two sources I have mentioned to see whether they are worth including in the Proto-Germanic entry. If the sources are valid, then it may be prudent to restore the original entry for *kāsijaz under Proto-Germanic. Because of the large number of redirects and page edits that were necessary after transferring the entry to West Germanic, it might be easier for you to use MewBot to change the links than to manually change them individually.

Rigognos Molinarios (talk)17:04, 18 June 2020

It's not so much the sources, but the question of whether the Norse forms are inherited or borrowed. Ringe thinks they're borrowed, Kroonen thinks inherited. What does Wiktionary think?

Rua (mew)17:14, 18 June 2020

I reviewed Ringe 2014 and the author did not address the descendants of the term in North Germanic. They are not brough up anywhere in the book.[1]

References[edit]

  1. ^ Ringe, Donald, Taylor, Ann (2014) The Development of Old English (A Linguistic History of English; 2), Oxford: Oxford University Press, →ISBN, page 135:PWGmc *kāsī
Rigognos Molinarios (talk)17:23, 18 June 2020

Um, caseus is listed as Latin borrowing into PWG, so of course that means the Norse word was borrowed.

Rua (mew)18:11, 18 June 2020

I do not deny that a Proto-Germanic term *kāsijaz would have been borrowed from Latin cāseus. I'm simply stating that the term may have been borrowed earlier that the West Germanic period since at least one author lists reflexes for the term in North Germanic languages.

I don't want this discussion to drag on too long, but Don Ringe makes no mention of West Germanic *kāsī being borrowed into North Germanic yielding Old Norse kæsir. Before assuming that Don Ringe implies that the term was borrowed into North Germanic through West Germanic at a relatively late date, keep in mind that it could also be possible that he simply does not consider Old Norse kæsir an inherited term from a Proto-Germanic *kāsijaz since there is a significant semantic shift between the Old Norse term and the West Germanic terms. The Old Norse word, kæsir, means "rennet, abomasum" rather than specifically "cheese". There is also a possibility that Don Ringe simply wasn't aware of the Old Norse term so he didn't include it in his 2014 book.

Rigognos Molinarios (talk)18:33, 18 June 2020