User:-sche/Low German

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Index of past and present discussions[edit]

Discussion may also take place on the talk pages of the lects' "About" pages:
The issue of frs and stq is intertwined:

My thoughts[edit]


Given my ambivalence about the Fula lects, my support for merging the Yiddish dialects and my opposition to merging Scots with English, I feel I should state my feelings about Low German in greater detail.

West Germanic has been, at all stages of its development, difficult to pull apart into discrete languages without leftovers. As Ernst Kausen wrote of German:

Die drei historischen Stadien — Althochdeutsch, Mittelhochdeutsch und Neuhochdeutsch — sind nur als Vereinigung von Dialekten greifbar, die verschiedenen Zweigen der obigen Klassifikation angehören.
The three historical stages — Old High German, Middle High German and New High German — are concrete only as unions of dialects which belong to different branches of the above classification scheme.

Dutch Low German and German Low German are as distinct as English and Scots, due to their separate development and the pull Dutch has exerted on DLG and the different pull German has exerted on GLG. Therefore, a split into DLG and GLG is justified and allows the messy situation to have some order.

Naturally, a DLG/GLG split also introduces complications, just as the split of English from Scots results in complications and messes (Category:Scottish English contains many things which might, upon closer inspection, only be Scots).

If there were more Low German speakers on this project, and a majority favoured a merge of the German and Dutch dialects, I would hold my nose, close my eyes and think of flowers; I would not oppose it. As it is, however, the only people who've shown an interest in the matter are CodeCat (who speaks Dutch), Liliana (who speaks German), and me (I also speak German).

- -sche (discuss) 03:00, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


As I see it, there are two cogent ways to encode Low German: (1) have entries for German Low German (nds-de) and Dutch Low Saxon (nds-nl), as is the status quo and as I favour, or (2) conflate GLG and DLS under one header, nds.

It is worth noting that the status quo ante was not cogent: it was (3) to use nds for GLG and DLS while duplicating DLS terms in ==Dutch Low Saxon== / {{head|nds-nl}} entries.

Several other options exist but are so unsound that I doubt they could ever gain traction here at all. These include: (4) giving each subdialect, e.g. Sallands, its own L2, which CodeCat correctly observed would be more foolish than splitting Serbo-Croatian (yet which was the status quo ante ante), (5) conflating not only GLG and DLS but also Plautdietsch, as nds.Wikt does.

- -sche (discuss) 00:24, 16 April 2013 (UTC)