User talk:Wyang

Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Jump to navigation Jump to search


Hi. I've seen your thread on the Beer Parlour, and I'm sorry you see things this way.

Personally, I don't see any deliberate Eurocentrism going on on this site; it's just a matter of fact that European languages are better represented in general, because more people contribute in that area. The rotating system Metaknowledge is using simply reflects that, and my edits to the nomination list were made in turn with the sole intent of helping him run FWOTD; not to give more weight to European languages. I'm willing to revert back to the old layout if you wish, but I'm not sure that'll accomplish anything.

I guess the ultimate goal would be to have a rotation of several thousand languages, but that's impossible. So my question is: what workable system would you like to see put in place instead? Per utramque cavernam 11:51, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Come support my recent nomination for WOTD: Wiktionary:Word_of_the_day/Nominations#General_nominations KevinUp (talk) 01:42, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, I think as long as there are quotations the terms will be featured for WOTD. Wyang (talk) 01:49, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Welcome back![edit]

It's good to see you back again. I thought you were going to leave here for good but thankfully you're back. Thank you very much for creating and fixing so many entries on Wiktionary since 2013. Just want to express my gratitude for your contributions towards Sino-Tibetan languages. The layout and formatting of Han characters back then was so much different it's been amazing seeing how things have changed over the years. Cheers! Here's a toast for Wyang! Let us all move forward to better days in the future! KevinUp (talk) 21:30, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Hey thanks! Wyang (talk) 21:59, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Joining the congrats. Welcome back, Frank! You can't run away after having done so much for languages of Asia! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:57, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
Chạy ngay đi Wyang (talk) 23:18, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
I really appreciate all the tips and pointers you have given me over the last several months, for instance using |ts=trad when the Traditional and Simplified form of a word are the same but there are several alternative traditional forms. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
  • しばらくでしたね。この間お元気で過ごされたでしょうか。またこちらにいらっしゃって嬉しく思います。 ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 01:01, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
    Eirikr さん
    またお会いできてとても嬉しかったです。こちらは元気に過ごしております。:) Wyang (talk) 01:45, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

冇咗你半個月有啲寂寞呀喂。—Suzukaze-c 02:40, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

原來我係最嘈嘅一名 :p Wyang (talk) 02:55, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
唔係最嘈嗰位,係最得力嗰位至啱 :D — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 14:49, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, after all the trouble I took to keep you and Rua from killing each other, I would hate to see both of you leave. Although you can be a bit temperamental at times (usually over legitimate concerns, but still...), you've been very generous with your time and your expertise. Welcome back! Chuck Entz (talk) 19:22, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi Wyang. Just want to inform you that Archive 1 to 9 of this page is still available. Of course, it is up to you whether or not you want to add them back. KevinUp (talk) 09:11, 17 August 2018 (UTC)


Hello. Where did you find this medical history sense? I've never heard of it. To me a "poor historian" would be someone who is just bad at the subject of history. Equinox 23:53, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

More at google:poor+historian. Wyang (talk) 23:56, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Excuse moi...[edit]

May I ask you that, are some of the pronunciations generated by "subst:zh-new" from a data source somewhere in Wiktionary? Dokurrat (talk) 15:57, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, an example is Module:zh/data/wordlist/1, from 教育部重編國語辭典修訂本. Wyang (talk) 22:16, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
May I ask where is Cantonese pronunciation data source located? And may I ask what is its source (reference)? Merci. Dokurrat (talk) 04:50, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: They are on the various subpages of Module:zh/data/yue-word. You can find some past discussions, including the sources, on the discussion page there. Wyang (talk) 09:24, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

ZH contribs by Vc06697[edit]

Could you vet the ZH contributions at Their JA addition was a minor nuisance rather than flat-out wrong, but it did raise questions about their competence. I cannot fully evaluate their ZH, but this change to 屈機, for instance, also looks suspicious.

TIA, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 16:40, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

@Eirikr: Thanks, the edit on 屈機 is ok. @Justinrleung Attention needed here please. Wyang (talk) 22:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
@Wyang: I've reverted their edits on . Also, their edit on 屈機 is not quite right, so I've fixed it as well. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:01, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


What about distinguishing MSC 詞素 (e.g. ) from 詞 (e.g. 爸爸父親) and having a way to list example words compactly? (I like how POS information is optional labels in User:Wyang/zh-def. Maybe we can have labels by dialect like "Mandarin morpheme" and "Cantonese noun" in {{User:Wyang/zh-def}}, providing a better solution to categorization than the |cat= parameter of {{zh-pron}} which usually force “Cartesian products.”) --Dine2016 (talk) 08:49, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Dine2016: This is a great idea. The |cat= parameter is not entirely Cartesian- specific categories can be generated with e.g. |cat=m:n,c:a code. But I agree this is a makeshift way to generate cats as the cats are properties integral to individual senses.
I really hope something major can happen to the format of entries, including placing more emphasis on the definition lines and adding definition-specific support for syn, ant, pron, cat, classifier, usage and translations. It's hard to give support like the above with what is present, and I'm not happy with the current format of definition lines; it's unsustainable if the Chinese content is to expand. Things are very awkwardly written and generated, e.g. examples should be stored in backend modules and generated by automatic querying from definition lines on entries, not placed under every term that the example uses. Wyang (talk) 09:45, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
@Dine2016: See also Template talk:zh-no-solo for a similar concept currently used in . KevinUp (talk) 07:11, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi. Do you happen to know any good MSC learner's dictionary? I recently discovered 《汉语教与学词典》 which distinguishes 名素, 动素, 形素 from 名, 动, 形, etc, and have a lot of usage notes. Although only 3100 characters and 3200 words are defined.

I also wonder if a collocation dictionary of Chinese similar to 《牛津英语搭配词典》 of English could be useful. --Dine2016 (talk) 04:12, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

I may be the wrong person to ask regarding MSC learner's dictionaries ... Tooironic, Atitarev, etc. may be able to offer suggestions about them. I don't have 汉语教与学词典 unfortunately. Collocations could useful, but we need to bear in mind that they are sense-specific properties and need to be templatised if we are to include them. Wyang (talk) 06:51, 11 October 2018 (UTC)


Hi Frank. Was just wondering what your source is on the yīngdàn reading? I can't find it in my dictionaries. I also note that my input method has yingshi but not yingdan. I think most native speakers would just read it as yingshi. Maybe we could include both readings? ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:59, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Tooironic: that reading is because meaning a unit of volume or mass is pronounced as dan4, a 'usurping' of the character 石 to write . When people know the meaning of the word as an English unit of mass, I think most educated native speakers would pronounce it as ying1 dan4. ying1 shi2 could be the uneducated reading, and maybe archaic reading, if the word was used in the classical times at all, but I think it's unlikely. Please see this on Zhihu for more. Wyang (talk) 06:32, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you Frank, very enlightening, as always. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:06, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
  • As an aside, there was a similar repurposing of Japanese with the on'yomi of koku, also to express a unit of mass or volume, more traditionally spelled as . ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:37, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


Please semi-lock the module page Module:th-hom/data. Those IPs were from Thai Wiktionary trying to add unattested/inexistent words. His edits have been disrupting for some time. --Octahedron80 (talk) 03:20, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

@Octahedron80: Semi-protected. Wyang (talk) 06:33, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. --Octahedron80 (talk) 06:41, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Etym at [edit]

I recently bumped again into the etymology at . Number 5 seems quite unlikely to me -- Mair traces this to Old Persian 𐎶𐎦𐎢𐏁 (m-gu-u-š), ostensibly borrowed from Old Median, but Median only dates to around 500 BCE and the oracle bone script version of the glyph predates that by six hundred to maybe a thousand years.

I don't suppose you have any insight? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:21, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

@Eirikr: The glyphs are quite similar, but there are a number of problems with this proposal: (1) the temporal discordance of the comparanda as mentioned, especially since the proposed borrowing is into OC; (2) the OC is relying on an outdated reconstruction with *-g; (3) The Proto-Tai loan of this, on which the Baxter-Sagart reconstruction is presumably at least partially based, shows a clearly voiceless onset. Thus it is likely there was a prefix/presyllable in the OC period, which this proposal cannot explain. Wyang (talk) 05:32, 15 August 2018 (UTC)


{{zh-new-er}} seems not working.

By the way, when centralizing wago terms on kana entries (e.g. 乙女, 少女おとめ), how should one preserve the edit history to show the original contributors to the kanji entries? Would an edit summary like “Moved from 乙女 and 少女” do? --Dine2016 (talk) 09:00, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, please see User talk:Wyang/Archive7#Template:zh-new-er. You can use {{subst:zh-new||{{zh-erhua form of|[[]]}}|p...=r|type=...1}} as a substitute for it.
Re edit history: I think that is reasonable, and is the only sustainable option.
I like the ja-l proposal, by the way. Wyang (talk) 09:08, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
(chiming in)
@Dine2016, FWIW, I agree re: kana first for wago, and perhaps having the option then of multiple kanji spellings. That comment of yours helps explain the layout at Template_talk:ja-l#Remodel_after_{{ko-l}}?, where it wasn't immediately clear to me why some have kana first. :) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 23:31, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Sense added by anon at 竊#Definitions[edit]

In this change, an anon reverted my rollback to re-add a sense of I, me. Given the underlying sense of this glyph (“secretly, stealthily; steal; thief”), this strikes me as a heck of a semantic shift.

Is this sense confirmable? If so, it should probably be labeled somehow, perhaps as slang, or rare, or something else appropriate, to set it aside clearly from the other obviously-related senses. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

@Eirikr: Several Chinese-English online/electronic dictionaries have translated this as a pronoun meaning "I" or "my", but it should be an adverb meaning "personally", per several Chinese-Chinese dictionaries. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:53, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, Justin is correct. The sense is quite common, now mostly in the phrase 竊以為…… (I think ...). Wyang (talk) 03:22, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Technical issue at [edit]

Hey Wyang, good to see you back! :)

In the {{zh-see}} template at , the redirect text says “beautiful jade; [[tinkle” with the "tinkle" part not properly wikilinked. Yet when I looked at the linked words at , there was no broken wikilink. Since I don't mess with template coding, I thought I'd let you know about it. Cheers! Bumm13 (talk) 23:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Hey @Bumm13! I've fixed that one now. Wyang (talk) 05:45, 22 August 2018 (UTC)


Surely 娘 means young woman here not mother? How can a mother marry? ---> Tooironic (talk) 10:53, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

A mother can remarry... this phrase is commonly said to be from the historical story of 朱耀宗 (more here). Whether that is true or a folk etymology is unknown. Also:
  • 《现代汉语句典》:【天要下雨,娘要嫁人】〈谚〉天要下雨由天,娘要嫁人也由娘。比喻别人拿定主意的事无法阻挡。
  • 《中华俗语源流大辞典》:“娘要嫁人”是指寡妇要嫁人,就像天要下雨一样,推也拦不住。
  • 《谚语词典》:亦作“天要下雨,娘要改嫁”。姜元溪·仇建新《鲁中奇险传》二四:“天要下雨,娘要改嫁,雨入江河掀巨浪,水注泥潭荡浑浆;嫁虎张虎势,嫁鸡展翅膀。“
  • 《汉语辞书大全》:【天要落雨起横云,娘要嫁人起横心】指寡妇要嫁人总不免狠下决心。
Wyang (talk) 11:02, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Very enlightening. Thank you! ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:19, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Translations of chinese word components[edit]

Do you know how the translations of the subwords in the chinese zh-forms boxes were generated? Is there code for a bot that I could look at? —This unsigned comment was added by User135711 (talkcontribs).

@‎User135711: According to Template:zh-forms: for single characters, the translations are from Module:zh/data/glosses; for multisyllabic words, the translations are from the entries in the mainspace. --Dine2016 (talk) 02:27, 30 August 2018 (UTC)


Should the senses be merged here? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:47, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: They should be separate, since NPC is only a type of cancer of the nose and throat. The general sense is more like 鼻癌 + 咽癌 rather than 鼻咽 + 癌. I haven't seen it used as that before, but the use probably exists. Wyang (talk) 23:46, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! The entry makes more sense now. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:45, 1 September 2018 (UTC)


Hi Frank. Do you have any idea what is going on here? I see the definition preview displayed as (“and the.}}”). Can this be fixed? ---> Tooironic (talk) 03:46, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Tooironic: It's fixed now. Wyang (talk) 07:14, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks mate. ---> Tooironic (talk) 13:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Chinese labels[edit]

Hi. How should one determine whether to use “literary”, “archaic” or “obsolete” for a pre-modern Chinese word not in Xiandai Hanyu Cidian? --Dine2016 (talk) 14:31, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I usually just use "literary", unless it is very obscurely obsolete. Wyang (talk) 22:31, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Compounds and Derived terms[edit]

So the 'Compounds' section is on the same level as the 'part of speech' section (like your edit at 浦‎), but 'Derived terms' are a level below the 'part of speech' section (like your edit at 竹林)? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:38, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Yah, that's correct. Wyang (talk) 03:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
okay thanks, got it. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:26, 12 September 2018 (UTC)


Can you substantiate this? It seems very unusual, are you sure it's not a representation of the plural raphae? If this is really how it's pronounced in Australia, it would at least need to go on a separate line of the pronunciation section with an appropriate regional label. Ƿidsiþ 05:13, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, here are some videos of the /ræfeɪ/ pronunciation, stressed on either syllable: [1] (02:03, 02:38, 03:54), [2] (04:02-04:20), [3] (00:25). It seems it's not limited to Australia. I think this pronunciation may have been influenced by French raphé. Wyang (talk) 05:40, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
Wow!! Nicely found! They even spell it ‘raphé’ on the slide. How bizarre. Ƿidsiþ 16:16, 15 September 2018 (UTC)


I mean, in Malaysia, sometimes Mandarin is used for this phrase Qhwans (talk) 06:30, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

@Qhwans: Could you please substantiate? Some usage examples would be great, though I'm inclined to believe you. 查某 is an example where Mandarin is added based on clips in which it is used. Wyang (talk) 06:47, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
@Wyang: Oh wait, actually no, they tend to say 全家富贵, I'm so sorry. However, speaking of 查某, is that not just an example of code-switching? Qhwans (talk) 06:51, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
No problem. Re 查某: yes, it probably is. Wyang (talk) 06:54, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
@Wyang: Don't mean to be mean, just curious, but if 查某 is a form of code-switching, then why is the pronunciation of Mandarin added? I'm pretty sure that speakers using that phrase in a mainly Mandarin sentence know that they're just adding in a MinNan phrase using a MinNan pronunciation of so. Qhwans (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Feel free to remove it. I guess it was added because there are well-known clips in which the word seems to be used in Mandarin, and Taiwan MoE's dictionary has it (with the Pinyin chámǒu), but I agree it is more likely code-switching. Wyang (talk) 02:41, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


I'm curious about the noun sense defined as "hegemony; dominance". It's easy to find usage where 霸氣 means "overbearing" or "overbearing manner", but could you give an example or two where it means "hegemony"? — Richwarm88 (talk) 02:50, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Please see the Hanyu Da Cidian entry for this word: [4]. Wyang (talk) 03:07, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
The first sense? — Richwarm88 (talk) 10:14, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, mainly the first sense. Wyang (talk) 10:20, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Would it be fair to say that that sense of 霸氣 is not seen much in contemporary usage? — Richwarm88 (talk) 10:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
I'd say it's still pretty common, maybe less of "hegemony", but definitely very common when it means "dominance, domination". 霸氣 is basically 氣 atmosphere, manner, spirit, etc. of a 霸 overlord. It's mostly a positive word in Chinese, unlike "overbearing" in English. Wyang (talk) 12:24, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
霸氣 is basically 氣 atmosphere, manner, spirit, etc. of a 霸 overlord. Exactly, and that's what made me wonder about "hegemony". A hegemony is a state of affairs (namely, having far more influence than other players) rather than a manner or style (boldness or bossiness). Also, a hegemony is almost always something that involves a geopolitical entity (e.g. the USA) or a social group (e.g. the aristocracy), whereas my impression is that 霸氣 typically relates to individual people. Of course, 霸氣 can be used in relation to a nation, but again, my impression is that it's about the way they do things rather than their position of dominance. E.g. 认为与美国的霸气自信比起来,中国太过小心翼翼,让人缺乏安全感。 Here, I think 霸气 refers to America's self-assured boldness in the way they go about things (in contrast to China's cautiousness), rather than its position of predominance over other nations (霸權的地位). Essentially, 霸氣 is a 氣, whereas "hegemony" is a 地位, no? — Richwarm88 (talk) 22:13, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Another way of putting it is that "hegemonic" is fine as an adjectival gloss for 霸氣, but it seems to me that, as a noun, it's more like "hegemonic manner" rather than "hegemony". — Richwarm88 (talk) 22:24, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah agreed. Modified. Thanks. Wyang (talk) 22:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Oh, great! I'm reassured to know that someone else sees my point, because it's not an easy matter to explain the difference between 霸氣 and "hegemony", since they are closely related terms. By the way, if I can go off-topic, I've done a few edits, modifying existing Wiktionary entries, and I'm wondering whether there is a mechanism whereby they get checked by someone. — Richwarm88 (talk) 23:45, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
There's always {{attention|zh}}, but use discretion. We don't have that many Chinese editors, and they spend a lot of time looking through high volumes of new edits by anonymous/IP editors in addition to their own edits. They're a precious resource that we need to conserve. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:11, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Also, 现代汉语词典第7版 p22 has two separate pronunciations for 霸氣- one for the noun form (bàqì) and one for the adjective form (bàqi). This is not included in [5] & 现代汉语规范词典第3版 p23 where both the noun and adjective forms are bàqì. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 05:33, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Rich: Your recent edits are fine. Don't forget to Wikify definitions by adding [[]] around important words in the definitions. Appreciate the rigorousness so far!
Re the pronunciation of 霸氣: I sometimes wonder if we are unnecessarily noting all the differences in 輕聲 among the various standards, making it more confusing than it needs to be. For both PoS's of 霸氣, both the bàqì and bàqi pronunciations are used, the former being more common for the noun sense. Maybe a pronunciation note is sufficient. Wyang (talk) 06:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


Is this also read as jiāngé then, or is it just in those heart terms? — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:26, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that is also read as jiāngé. Wyang (talk) 03:32, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

得勁 and 不得勁[edit]

It is not pronounced "děijìnr"? Because I'm a 100% sure that in JiLu Mandarin (or at least the Shi–Ji dialect), North Eastern Mandarin and Beijing Mandarin says 得 as "dei", in 得勁. A proof would be a video clip of 方清平, a born and raised Beijinger and also a 相声演员, at time=17:12, you can clearly hear that "dei3" was said. Qhwans (talk) 09:23, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Please see my edit summary. Wyang (talk) 09:26, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
@Qhwans: But... what you typed was déi... [6] Dokurrat (talk) 11:46, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
It could be déi, děi, or even dế; my grandpa said dế勁 all the time... the joy of being a 清入 character. Wyang (talk) 12:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
@Dokurrat: Oh my bad, I was pronouncing it in JiLu Mandarin for the "déi" part. Qhwans (talk) 02:27, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
@Qhwans: I will remove déijìn(r) currently in entry 得勁, as I don't know if JiLu Mandarin dialects are too different from MSC phonology to be rendered in pinyin. I will replace it with děijìnr instead. Dokurrat (talk) 12:56, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
@Wyang, You said 得 could be déi; did you merely mean an expectational reflex or that you've heard it for real in a dialect not too different from MSC phonology ? Dokurrat (talk) 13:01, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
As in how a Beijinger would write a dialectal pronunciation of 得, such as /tei24/. Wyang (talk) 21:22, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


特例 is defined as special case; exception; exemption

"exemption" implies that 特例 can carry the sense that somebody or something is released from some liability or requirement to which others are subject. In other words, it implies that 特例 can convey the same sense as 免除 or 豁免. But is that so? I don't see it in the usage I've looked at or in dictionary definitions of 特例.

I figure 特例 is just special case (or anomaly; atypical example; something unusual) A special case could be handled

- by being released from liability or

- by extra harsh treatment

But neither light nor harsh treatment is part of the meaning of 特例, is it?

No, although in many cases it would be naturally translated in English as "exemption". When we say 开特例, what is intended is usually exemption (not just exception), i.e. dictating as an authority that someone is excluded from the normal treatment. Wyang (talk) 22:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
That's interesting. Thanks. I see where that came from now. I suppose another way to deal with it would be to leave "exemption" out of the definition of 特例 and add an entry for 开特例 "make an exception; allow an exemption", just as Merriam-Webster has an entry for "make an exception". [7]Richwarm88 (talk) 23:25, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Ok, I added that as a usage example in the entry now (开特例 may not be idiomatic enough). Wyang (talk) 23:33, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
I think that's a good way to handle the issue. — Richwarm88 (talk) 23:35, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


Hi. May I ask if you have any interest in fix this entry? Dokurrat (talk) 05:12, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@Dokurrat: You almost got it. You just needed to add 姆 to the list of characters that are allowed to have a syllabic m/ng (which I'm not sure why we need it). — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:11, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: Ah. Merci! Dokurrat (talk) 06:32, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

reporting a bug[edit]

Hi Frank. I don't know if it's just me, but currently I see Category:zh:Chinese_character_components as 9,231 entries, including 燕窝汤 which I just made that obviously has nothing to do with Chinese character components. ---> Tooironic (talk) 14:48, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

@Tooironic: Oops, I made a mistake in the code. It should be fixed now. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 15:39, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
I still see 9,006 total entries in that category, including 体毛... ---> Tooironic (talk) 15:40, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
@Tooironic: It'll take some time for the actual category page to remove these. The category shouldn't be in those entries anymore. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 15:43, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
OK, no worries. Thanks for responding to this. ---> Tooironic (talk) 15:44, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
@Tooironic: No, thank you for reporting the bug :D — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 15:45, 22 September 2018 (UTC)


Could you take a look at this etymology? I've got two concerns:

  1. I'm not quite sure how to include a discussion on its connection with 舍.
  2. Schuessler (2007) says it's an "exoactive (caus.) of shì 釋", but then it refers to 4.4, which is on exopassives. Is this a mistake?

— justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 01:21, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

I hope I've summarised Schuessler's ideas correctly in that etymology now. For #2, I think it's a typo for §4.3 exoactives. Wyang (talk) 10:42, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, it looks good now. Thanks! — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 14:31, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Anatomy stuff[edit]

Hi there, would you be interested in creating the English redlinks at User:Ultimateria/redlinks#Spanish? I'm apprehensive about my research skills, even if these terms seem straightforward. Also, I was hoping you could confirm the Translingual entries A. and V. for artery and vein, respectively. I found them in a Spanish anatomy textbook and found some other hits on Google Books, but I'm doubting whether they should be capitalized. Ultimateria (talk) 17:14, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Sure, I've created those.
A. / V. / N. / M. are used in English, but rather infrequently, compared to other abbreviations such as a. / v. / n. / m. and aa. / vv. / nn. / mm. Wyang (talk) 02:04, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for creating those! I also just discovered an error on 葡萄牙 that you might be able to fix, in the box in the top right corner. Ultimateria (talk) 17:57, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Fixed now. Wyang (talk) 01:30, 28 September 2018 (UTC)


Hi. Can pinyin orthography differences be listed like |m=xīhé,Xīhé,Xī-Hé in {{zh-pron}}?

By the way, is it possible to make collapsing (1) controllable in the “Visibility” section of the sidebar and (2) work and collapsed by default in mobile view? --Dine2016 (talk) 15:11, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

1. I think that should be avoided when possible. 2.1. That is probably possible, although I'm not sure of the details of how to do it. 2.2. Also possible. The code for collapsing collapsible elements is absent in MediaWiki:Mobile.js, and there seems to be opposition for adding it in for fear of loading unnecessary code on mobiles. Wyang (talk) 08:00, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


Hi. While I was looking at this 一繁對多簡 character table, it occurred to me that {{zh-see}} sometimes needed to copy the glosses and categories from a particular etymology section rather than the whole Chinese section. For example, corresponded to two simplified characters: “apple” and 𬞟 “clover fern” with separate meanings. Yet the {{zh-see}} on copied the zh:Ferns category from the section for 𬞟, while the {{zh-see}} on 𬞟 copied the “apple; Chinese chestnut; etc.” glosses from the section for . The second problem was easy to fix but the first problem was not.

(The problem is more prominent for Japanese whose vocabulary is full of homographs, which is why I proposed the template {{ja-kanji spellings}} to put under the ===Etymology n=== sections to serve as something like an anchor. The Japanese entry layout has much more room for improvement than Chinese IMO.) --Dine2016 (talk) 04:15, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Haiz, that would be possible, but would be adding a kludge on top of the existing ones. Wyang (talk) 08:02, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
OK, thanks, I'll implement that for {{ja-see}} when I have time. --Dine2016 (talk) 09:12, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Advocating for an Automatic Process to Add Words to the Compounds and Derived Terms Sections of Chinese Entries[edit]

I have enjoyed looking over the love related terms you have been working on like 王八看綠豆──對上眼了. Neat stuff, I'm sure I will use some of these in conversation in the coming days. I'm just sad that none of these terms are included in the compounds and derived terms fields on the relevant pages. It would be fun to have all the phrases with Wangba in them on the Wangba page. There has got to be some kind of bot or program that could help editors automatically add compounds and derived terms. I'm used to doing mindless, repetitive work, so I enjoy the insanity of adding hundreds of words to various characters' pages, but not everyone and maybe not anyone else would ever be willing to spend hours hacking away at something that could clearly be done by some kind of automated process. The lack of this automatic word-adding process is one of the things holding back the true potential of this dictionary. 不管怎么样, there's no question in my mind that wiktionary could become the best Chinese-English dictionary, 没有之一, so please keep up the interesting work! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad people like them! I'd say adding compounds is a pretty automatable job, so I'm not too worried about that. I've just been filling in the numerous gaps in entries atm. Most of the really interesting words are still missing.
(do not use 王八看綠豆──對上眼了 to refer to real people ... you've had my warning ...)
Wyang (talk) 21:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

It's a matter of being smart...[edit]

Which I'm not. Sorry for making the history of entrys long... Dokurrat (talk) 05:22, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

And I'm really trying, hard. Dokurrat (talk) 05:24, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
It's all good. It would be good to try to use the preview function more often, and look for other parts to change whilst making an edit. I find that quite helpful sometimes. Wyang (talk) 05:30, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, and after this happened, I think maybe it's not a matter of notbeing smart but a matter of not being careful... I think I should fǎnsī and thank you. Dokurrat (talk) 05:42, 4 October 2018 (UTC)


I got what you mean now. I'm laughing hard in front of my computer! Twice (first time: because of your first edit summary; second time: forementioned reason). Dokurrat (talk) 06:55, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Well, not sure if someone would be in the same boat as the person in that usage sentence, finding that example helpful ... Wyang (talk) 06:58, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Okay, okay, hahaha... Dokurrat (talk) 07:00, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
I figured out how to make my example sentence innocent-ized:
差點兒沒坑兒本來看見前頭警告標誌偏偏耗子別處兒回來進去 [MSC, trad.]
差点儿没坑儿本来看见前头警告标志偏偏耗子别处儿回来进去 [MSC, simp.]
chàdiǎnr méi diào jìn zhè kēngr lǐ, wǒ běnlái dōu kànjiàn qiántou yǒu ge jǐnggào de biāozhì le. Piānpiān wǒ shǔ hàozi de, liào zhuǎ jiù wàng. Wǒ qù le tàng biéchùr yòu fān huílái le, dé, diào jìnqù le. [Pinyin]
(please add an English translation of this example)
Okay, it's too lengthy, I don't think it can goes to the entry namespace :-P. Dokurrat (talk) 08:43, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
所以“我差点儿没掉进这坑儿里”是我本来很希望我能掉进这坑里,这样我才编的后面的部分。Wyang (talk) 12:44, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
是的,表示almost not的时候,你的例句(希望掉进去)比我的(不希望掉进去)普遍。我当时写例句的时候没想到坑儿也可以主动希望掉进去😂。 Dokurrat (talk) 13:35, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

"a word to the wise is sufficient"[edit]

善賈. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 01:14, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Wyang (talk) 01:17, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Talk page[edit]

Wyang, can you please semi-protect my talk page indefinitely? I'm never here, and the only people who visit me here are these losers. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:01, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Already done by someone else. Wyang (talk) 22:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

zh-forms template[edit]

I feel a bit diffident about posting a newbie question here, but I'm not sure where else I should go to ask about the mechanics of creating and editing an entry for a Chinese word.

First, thanks for correcting my version of the entry for 菇蕈.

You wrote "please make sure the template zh-forms is present". Is that simply a matter of inserting the text zh-forms after ==Chinese==? (Note: I removed the curly brackets around "zh-forms" here because they seemed to cause the text not to display as I wanted.)

You also wrote "[please make sure] zh-pron has the parameter |cat= (part of speech))". In the case of 菇蕈, the pos is "n", but what would I put as the value of the parameter cat if the word was, say, both a noun and a verb?

I apologise in advance if the answer to these questions is in link(s) you have already sent me after my first edit. Richwarm88 (talk) 20:46, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

@Richwarm88: No need to be diffident - the {{}} markup indicates a template, and you can find the documentation of these templates in the Template: namespace ({{zh-forms}}, {{zh-pron}}). More explanation can be found on those pages, but in short, for zh-forms: the template is used to indicate the different forms (traditional, simplified, variant, etc.) of a word; if the traditional and simplified forms are the same, then no parameter may be required, like in this case; if the simplified form differs, |s= is used to indicate the simplified form. For zh-pron: the shorthands for part of speech in the |cat= parameter is comma-delimited, so for noun + verb it would be n,v. Just let me know if there are other things that you are not sure about. You may find this page useful too: Wiktionary:About Chinese. Cheers, Wyang (talk) 22:59, 12 October 2018 (UTC)


This simplified form is wrong.--2001:DA8:201:3512:D4E:75C3:2D21:69FC 00:53, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Speedied. Wyang (talk) 00:57, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Chinese entry audio not working?[edit]

There's only an empty bar now.

Yes, sorry, I don't how to fix it either. Wyang (talk) 21:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
@Justinrleung seemed to have an idea of what was going on. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:09, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge, Mteechan: It seems to be because of collapsed mode: specifically it has to do with putting an audio file in the collapsed section with class="mw-collapsed". See an example here. Yes, I've found the problem, but I don't know how it can be fixed. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 23:16, 16 October 2018 (UTC)