Wiktionary talk:About Tokelauan

Part of speech for numerals

Currently, WT:ATKL#Parts_of_speech explains the POS for numerals like so:

Stative verbs may also be called adjectives or even numerals, but they shouldn't be categorised as such. For example, the definition of the verb tahi (“one”) should read the following:...

What looks like the definitive description of Tokelauan grammar describes numerals as a subclass of verbs (similar to the WT:ATKL handling), but also as nouns. See from the bottom of page 12 of the 1986 Tokelau Dictionary (bolding mine):

Numerals are a sub-class of verbs and usually occur after the verbal particle e: e tolu aku ika ‘I have three fish’. They are not used as qualifiers. One can say na maua nā ika e tolu ‘fish were caught which were three, they caught three fish’, but not *na maua na ika tolu. However, in certain constructions numerals can be used nominally: kua lava te lima ‘five are enough’, kua teka te fā ‘it is past four o’clock’, valu te limagafua popo ‘grate five coconuts’.

Presumably then, Tokelauan numerals should have both ===Verb=== and ===Noun=== parts of speech. There should probably also be an explanation somewhere that numeral forms may include suffixation with counter marker -ga- and classifiers such as -fua, -kumi, or -mata.

What do others think? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:33, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@Eirikr: See p. xxxix:

Any verb, verb phrase, or whole sentence, can be converted into a nominal structure by replacing the tense-aspect particle with an article.

This is just a grammatical feature of the Tokelauan verb, not anything specific to numerals. Thadh (talk) 06:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Thadh -- Thank you! I wasn't sure if the specific nominalization of numerals was covered by that or whether it deserved separate mention.

I'm curious too if you happen to know -- numerals are treated as a subclass of verbs, and I can't tell if that subclass status implies that the "verb-ness" has limitations compared to other words that more clearly describe actions or states. For instance, while we see e [NUMERAL] [subject, etc.], where the e is clearly the particle used before verbs, do we also see things like kua [NUMERAL] [subject, etc.] to indicate a past or completed change in state?

(For that matter, we seem to be missing any entry for Tokelauan kua, and I'm not sure I should be the one to add it.) ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

See p.164 for an example of kua [NUMERAL]:

Ko au kua tolu hefulu valu tauhaga ― I am thirty eight years old

I don't think numerals have any limitations compared to other stative verbs.

By the way, regarding your previous question about -ga- and the others: I think it's best to analyse these as derived terms, not any productive constructions. Thadh (talk) 19:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)