Talk:van

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Regarding Dutch pronunciation: I was under the impression that this would be pronounce as /fan/. Eclecticology

There are two things to consider here:

  1. Within western Europe, there are lots of slightly differings ways of pronouncing labial fricatives (w, v, f), to the extent that speakers of English make fun of German speakers' apparent inability to pronounce the 'w': 've have vays to make you talk' -- while in fact German has both a 'v' and a 'w'.
  2. Within the Netherlands, speakers of the dominant dialects of the Western provinces of Holland tend to devoice the voiced front consonants and voice the voiceless front consonants. For some strange reason, in this case the pronunciation of the dominant dialects has not become w:Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands. So, de zon in de zee zien zakken (to see the sun descend into the sea) is pronounced in those provinces as de son in de see sien sakken; Amsterdammers go even further and pronounce suiker (sugar) for instance as zuiker (with a voiced 's', so to speak).

To wrap it up, I don't know which of these two facts causes the confusion; and maybe I made a mistake by using the wrong notation: I have been using the w:SAMPA Chart, except for shwa's, which I copied from the entry for The. --Branko.

Thanks. I should have suspected something like that. Although I favour IPA, the IPA and SAMPA may not differ on this word. Preferring a standard pronunciation for all languages should be supported; I think that it will be impossible to do justice to any dialects in any language. Having the English and Dutch words with the smae pronunciation may also be problematical with the English vowel sound being more like a /æ/ than the Dutch and the English "n" being more strongly vocalic. Eclecticology

I don't see a problem in having a limited set of phonemes. After all, it is not as if people should learn to speak a foreign language from this resource. And if I cannot write the exact pronunciation of a word, somebody else will. Branko

The pronunciation of the Dutch word 'van' is /vɑn/ rather than /van/, /van/ (written vaan) means 'flag' or 'banner'. So I changed the notation

Old senses[edit]

In Prescott's The History of the Conquest of Mexico, written about 150 years ago, van seems to be used in a sense related to but not synonymous with vanguard. Can anybody shed light? I'll try to find a quotation where both are used. — Hippietrail 15:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Camionet[edit]

In the dutch "translations to be checked" I saw the word camionet. I'm not sure of the spelling and I can't find the gender. Maybe somebody else can take care of this.