Template talk:etyl:ber-tam

RFD

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Template:etyl:ber-tam

Isn't this the same as 'Berber', which already uses the code {{etyl:ber}}? —CodeCat 14:39, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I can't discern any difference. delete -- Liliana • 14:45, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I seem to think I created this because it was used in an entry, not because of any personal desire for the template. --Mglovesfun (talk) 14:47, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

It looks like [[Tamazight]] had "Tamazight", and you formatted it to use {{etyl:ber-tam}}, which you created at the same time. —Ruakh_TALK 14:56, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, as I couldn't find a code for Tamazight, I have no idea if Berber and Tamazight are effectively the same thing. --Mglovesfun (talk) 14:57, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

• It's not the same thing, although maybe it would be better if we treated them the same. "Berber" is the name of a language family which includes a staggering profusion of languages/dialects. "Tamazight" is just "Berber language" in most Berber languages, but confusingly it's also often used as the official name for the specific dialect spoken in central Morocco (which has its own ISO code, tzm). Personally I think we should lump them all together as "Tamazight" and deal with local differences on the level of definition-line context markers, but this is confused by 1) the fact that some Berber languages have a history of being treated separately, eg Kabyle and Touareg; and 2) the fact that we have never had a discussion about it here and there is no history of consensus. Ƿidsiþ 15:26, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
  • See also [1].​—msh210℠ (talk) 15:29, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
    • As I understand it, 'Berber' is a language family (ISO defines 'ber' as a family), and 'Tamazight' is a macrolanguage that encompasses (almost) all of that family, similar to how 'Gaelic' and 'Goidelic language' are mostly the same. I don't think there is really a distinction between them that is useful for Wiktionary? —CodeCat 16:19, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
      • We need to decide what it means exactly. If "Tamazight" is intended to include Kabyle and Touareg, I think that sounds weird and "Berber" would be better. "Tamazight" to me suggests northwestern varieties. Ƿidsiþ 09:17, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
      • I think nobody who seriously studies Berber languages considers Touareg to be part of Tamazight. There definitely is a distinction between these terms. Maybe we need something like this classification list to categorize the Berber languages properly? (especially since there isn't really any agreement on what constitutes a language and what is better classified as a dialect) -- Liliana • 13:17, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Per the above discussion, delete. - -sche (discuss) 21:11, 31 October 2012 (UTC)