Template talk:rhymes

Other languages

It would be nice if an optional parameter were introduced to be able to also use this template for non-English words. So something like {{Rhymes|fr|œf}} that would result into Rhymes: Rhymes: -œf. henne 10:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I also made Template:Rhymes2 for that very purpose. Of course, these needn't be two different templates (make the language parameter optional) but when I made this one I didn't know how to do this. Actually I still don't know but a have an idea of where to look to find out. It'll either be a matter of my getting around to it or finding that some other kind soul has already done it for us. Jimp 07:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC) Okay I've got around to it. However, as it stands you have to type the whole name of the language. I'll see what I can do about that. There are three pages now using Template:Rhymes2:

• do
• rime
• choix

I'll now swap them over. Jimp 08:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC) Done. Jimp 08:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC) Okay now you have to type in a code for the country. The codes are as follow.

• fr for French
• du for Dutch
• it for Italian
• sw for Swedish

Of course this list should be expanded in the future & we should allow for the language name to be typed in in full but I s'pose this might do for now after all there are no rhyme pages for any other languages yet. Jimp 08:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC) P.S. to do this I've completely changed Template:Rhymes2 and connected it to this one. Jimp 08:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC) I've just make the following changes. Jimp 14:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• sv for Swedish
• nl for Dutch as per ISO 639-1 code

I've added the full list of ISO 639-1 codes & the following ISO 639-2 codes. Jimp 17:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• fre for French
• dut for Dutch
• ger for German
• swe for Swedish
• spa for Spanish
• gre for Greek
• wel for Welsh
• cor for Cornish

This is all outdated now! See the documentation above. There is, however nothing against creating templates for the ISO 639-2 or 639-3 codes. henne 13:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

lang= not 2?

Isn't the recent convention to use "lang=" for language codes? --Connel MacKenzie 22:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I do not know. It there a convention like that? It isn’t used (i.e. I do not use it) in the etymology templates either. (See {{L.}})

But maybe that wouldn’t be a bad idea here. Maybe it solves the problem that right now, if there is only one argument, it is considered as a used template on the page? I.e. if a page contains {{rhymes|œʌ}}, then the edit page mentions {{œʌ}} as a used template on the page...? henne 10:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I went looking for the said convention but I couldn't find it. I s'pose that this has a lot to do with the fact that I didn't know where to look. Now, let me see whether I understand Connel MacKenzie correctly. We now have the following.

A) Rhymes: {{#if:{{{2|}}}|[[Rhymes:{{{{{1}}}}}:-{{{2}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{2}}}}}]]|[[Rhymes:English:-{{{1}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{1}}}}}]]}}

I think Connel is saying that it instead should be something like this.

B) Rhymes: {{#if:{{{2|}}}|[[Rhymes:{{{{{lang}}}}}:-{{{2}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{2}}}}}]]|[[Rhymes:English:-{{{1}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{1}}}}}]]}}

Wouldn't we then also (have to) change the other parameter, for example, like this?

C) Rhymes: {{#if:{{{2|}}}|[[Rhymes:{{{{{lang}}}}}:-{{{rhyme}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{rhyme}}}}}]]|[[Rhymes:English:-{{{rhyme}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{rhyme}}}}}]]}}

Now, since this is (optionally) a two-parameter template wouldn't this require that when we use the template we type in "rhyme=" and if used "lang=" as in the following examples?

1) {{rhymes|lang=fr|rhyme=œʌ}}

2) {{rhymes|rhyme=ɪsən}}

I'm no expert but I think that this is how it works. I dunno, that would see kind of tedious to me. I mean one of the advantages of using templates is that it saves typing. Perhaps I misunderstand what Connel wrote or misunderstand the workings of templates but I'd vote against making it such that you'd have to type anything extra.

I can see the sense in standardising on "lang=" where there is only one parameter: when there is only one you don't need to type anything but isn't it different when there are more? If this is the convention and I haven't misunderstood what's going on, then I'd suggest that the convention be ammended to exempt templates with more than parameter. Jimp 08:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Your B should be like this:

Rhymes: {{#if:{{{lang|}}}|[[Rhymes:{{{{{lang}}}}}:-{{{1}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{1}}}}}]]|[[Rhymes:English:-{{{1}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{1}}}}}]]}}

No, there is not reason to name the first parameter too. Naming parameters is optional. But once they have a name, you have to use it. Since the lang parameter is optional, it seems opportune to make it named. The thing is that sometimes it gets very complicated if you do not name you parameters. However, I see no appalling reason here to do so.

The only simplification would be that the 1 parameter stays parameter one, so that the template could be simplified:

Rhymes: [[Rhymes:{{#if:{{{lang|}}}|{{{{{lang}}}}}|English}}:-{{{1}}}|{{IPAchar|-{{{1}}}}}]]

Do you get it? henne 12:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

This section of discussion has a few inaccuracies about what templates can do, etc. In any case the lang= parameter is implemented as documented. Robert Ullmann 14:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Automatization

Isn't there a way to make the listings in the Rhymes namespace automatic? As we have when we categorize a page. I guess there should be a way to do it if we also add to the words a template stating the number of syllabes they have. Having "rhymes with" listings is an idea I love, but the job of mantaining them by hand seems like a nightmare... -- euyyn @ en.wikipedia

I can think of two solutions:

1. Have a bot do it.
2. Move the Rhymes namespace into the Category namespace.

But, of course, there must be a better method available to those with the special buttons. Jimp 08:16, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Categories would work perfectly for this, as far as I can see. Conrad.Irwin 16:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Evenb better in my opinion would be to have another Category-like namespace — one that you can categorize pages in, but is distinct from the Category namespace — and call it Rhymes. I don't even know whether there's been an extension written to do this, and it would certainly require developer support. Barring that, yeah, I like moving rymes into the Category namespace.—msh210℠ 21:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Categories have their own SQL tables and other such things. Creating another "category-like" namespace would be a huge mod. Not an extension. Robert Ullmann 08:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Would making rhymes categories would require a vote? Also: Has it been discussed and/or straw-polled in the past?—msh210℠ 17:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Automatization 2.0

Can't/shouldn't we automatize the functionality of this template? Using Lua, we can link to rhymes while showing the IPA pronunciations: /ˈlɪs.ən/ --Z 14:39, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

We could create an über-pronunciation template, which would automatically generate pronunciation for languages that allow that ({{hy-pron}}, {{ka-IPA}}), automatically hyphenate and automatically link to rhymes. --Vahag (talk) 14:58, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

A typical output of such template would be:

* (Eastern Armenian, standard) [blahblah]

* Hyphenation: blah-blah

This way people can not add more IPA pronunciations for other accents properly. --Z 21:53, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Other accents too will be generated automatically. But this is a matter of distant future. I don't want to hijack your thread about rhymes. Let's discuss automating rhyme linking here. --Vahag (talk) 22:14, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

For future readers, see also:

• Wiktionary:Grease pit/2013/October#Convert rhyme pages into categories?
• Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2013/December#Rhymes categories again
• Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2021/August#Automatic rhymes - excarnateSojourner (talk | contrib) 17:31, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Rhymes for suffixes?

I've seen people (e.g. @ExcarnateSojourner) add rhymes for suffixes which doesn't make much sense to me, especially considering that the stress isn't on the suffix most of the time in whole words. Thoughts? Fytcha (talk) 02:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

@Fytcha Hmm, that's a fair point. Unless someone jumps in here with a reason to add rhymes to suffixes, I'll stop adding them. - excarnateSojourner (talk|contrib) 03:04, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

I would only add them for suffixes that are stressed, such as -icity. —Mahāgaja · talk 08:35, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Parameter |s= and stress on last syllable

I just added |s=3 for privative. But looking at Rhymes:English/ɪv, a comment says that words like adjective should not be listed because the stress is not on the last syllable. If that is the proper use of |s=, perhaps update the documentation. I kept |s=3 for privative, just didn't list it as a 3 syllable rhyme. Dpleibovitz (talk) 07:56, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

And I just noticed that for other suffixes, e.g., -ition, the stress must be on the penultimate syllable. Dpleibovitz (talk) 08:16, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

|s= has nothing to do with stress placement. The rhyme template at privative should include |s=3 because privative is a 3-syllable word. But the rhyme template itself should be {{rhymes|en|ɪvətɪv|s=3}}, not {{rhymes|en|ɪv|s=3}}, because rhyme is always calculated from the stressed vowel to the end of the word. —Mahāgaja · talk 08:58, 13 February 2022 (UTC)