Reconstruction talk:Proto-Celtic/bināti
Latest comment: 7 years ago by CodeCat in topic Thematic
Thematic
[edit]@CodeCat: how sure are we that this class (Thurneysen's B IV) was thematic? The Old Irish first-person singular is only benaim (absolute and conjunct), never *binu/*·biun, which points to a PC first-person singular *binami rather than *binū. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:03, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- I'll change that then. But from a synchronic point of view, the class is thematic with all the thematic vowels replaced by -a-, isn't it? —CodeCat 13:14, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- I guess that depends on your definition of "thematic". If it means "having a vowel between the root and the ending", then yes. If it means "descended from a PIE thematic conjugation", then no. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:15, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- We could label the verbs by their "thematic vowel" instead. Then we'd have the e-conjugation, a-conjugation, ā-conjugation, etc. —CodeCat 15:24, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- That's true. I'm not sure how many conjugation types are reconstructed for PC. The major Old Irish types are A I (PC ā-conjugation), A II (PC ī-conjugation), B I (PC e-conjugation), B II (PC ye-conjugation), and B IV (PC na-conjugation). Class B III is small and probably reflects a ni-conjugation, nu-conjugation, or both. The other OI conjugation classes can be derived from these four, I think: A III is (y)e-conjugation verbs after a deleted consonant (leaving vowel hiatus in OI); B III is e-conjugation verbs with a nasal infix (like Latin vincō). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:39, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- Ending-wise, B III is the same as B I, but it may still be worth giving them separate names in Proto-Celtic, just as we might distinguish a-futures from reduplicated a-futures in OI despite them having the same inflection. —CodeCat 17:50, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- That's true. I'm not sure how many conjugation types are reconstructed for PC. The major Old Irish types are A I (PC ā-conjugation), A II (PC ī-conjugation), B I (PC e-conjugation), B II (PC ye-conjugation), and B IV (PC na-conjugation). Class B III is small and probably reflects a ni-conjugation, nu-conjugation, or both. The other OI conjugation classes can be derived from these four, I think: A III is (y)e-conjugation verbs after a deleted consonant (leaving vowel hiatus in OI); B III is e-conjugation verbs with a nasal infix (like Latin vincō). —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:39, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- We could label the verbs by their "thematic vowel" instead. Then we'd have the e-conjugation, a-conjugation, ā-conjugation, etc. —CodeCat 15:24, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
- I guess that depends on your definition of "thematic". If it means "having a vowel between the root and the ending", then yes. If it means "descended from a PIE thematic conjugation", then no. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:15, 9 October 2016 (UTC)