Talk:жёстче
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@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89, Wanjuscha, Per utramque cavernam, Guldrelokk Wikitiki, Ivanova has the note [о́щче и о́ще] by the entry for жёстче. I am fine, however, with reversing the order, if you think the жо́ще pronunciation is more common. Benwing2 (talk) 02:46, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: I pronounce жо́ще and I think it’s more common. Good as is now. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:33, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Atitarev: Have you at least ever heard жощче? I haven't. --WikiTiki89 11:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Wikitiki89:: Yes, I think so. It must be a spelling pronunciation, also весну́шчатый (vesnúščatyj). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:52, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Atitarev: Have you at least ever heard жощче? I haven't. --WikiTiki89 11:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- This word is not special, /щ/ in general freely varies with /щч/ at morpheme boundaries. The order should probably be the same for all cases. Guldrelokk (talk) 09:54, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- This is not a morpheme boundary. --WikiTiki89 11:01, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, still the case is similar. Guldrelokk (talk) 12:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- No they are not similar. At morpheme boundaries, both pronunciations are common, and perhaps the щч is a little more common. Here that is entirely not the case. --WikiTiki89 12:27, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- For жёстче (and other comparatives of adjectives in -ский), /щч/ pronunciation exists (and a dictionary even gives it first), for, say, счастье (sčastʹje) it does not, except in dialects. This depends on morphological structure, /к/ is palatalised by the comparative suffix, which is a different morpheme, while /щ/аст- is synchronically a root with non-alternating /щ/. I myself do not think that /щч/ is more common across most morpheme boundaries either, I just think no difference should be made unless it can be sourced. Guldrelokk (talk) 13:08, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- I object to what you're saying in principle. Firstly, sources make mistakes, and we should use our discretion to disagree with them when necessary. Secondly, practice overrides theory, so even if you show that in theory щч should be an acceptable pronunciation, if in reality it is rare then that is how we should treat it. --WikiTiki89 14:27, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- There is no way to know practice across the whole of Russian-speaking world without consulting sources. If a dictionary lists /жощче/, it must exist. Guldrelokk (talk) 14:58, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- I object to what you're saying in principle. Firstly, sources make mistakes, and we should use our discretion to disagree with them when necessary. Secondly, practice overrides theory, so even if you show that in theory щч should be an acceptable pronunciation, if in reality it is rare then that is how we should treat it. --WikiTiki89 14:27, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- For жёстче (and other comparatives of adjectives in -ский), /щч/ pronunciation exists (and a dictionary even gives it first), for, say, счастье (sčastʹje) it does not, except in dialects. This depends on morphological structure, /к/ is palatalised by the comparative suffix, which is a different morpheme, while /щ/аст- is synchronically a root with non-alternating /щ/. I myself do not think that /щч/ is more common across most morpheme boundaries either, I just think no difference should be made unless it can be sourced. Guldrelokk (talk) 13:08, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- No they are not similar. At morpheme boundaries, both pronunciations are common, and perhaps the щч is a little more common. Here that is entirely not the case. --WikiTiki89 12:27, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, still the case is similar. Guldrelokk (talk) 12:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
- This is not a morpheme boundary. --WikiTiki89 11:01, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Avanesov only gives [щ] for жёстче, however. Guldrelokk (talk) 13:37, 2 May 2018 (UTC)