Talk:کرشن
Latest comment: 3 years ago by SodhakSH in topic Etymology
Etymology
[edit]@Tibidibi, can we not simply call the Persian word to be from Sanskrit (after all the author of that quotation was an Indian who could have quite possibly adopted it himself from Sanskrit)? Choosing a particular Modern Indian language as the etymon seems to be tricksy, since such words are learned borrowings from Sanskrit (compare, for example, English Himalayas, Sanskrit, etc. for which dictionaries present only Sanskrit as the etymology). Thanks. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 18:58, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Inqilābī I don't really know anything about Sanskrit, but based on the pronunciation section of Sanskrit कृष्ण (kṛṣṇa), should it not have been کرشنه (krišna) if it was directly from Sanskrit? I thought it was from Hindustani because of the lack of the final vowel.--Tibidibi (talk) 19:49, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Tibidibi: English Sanskrit and Prakrit also have no final vowel, but they are presented as being from Sanskrit (see the references at those entries). We cannot be sure if this word really be from the Hindustani learned loan:
mark that northern Indian pronunciation of Sanskrit features schwa deletion, so it is safe to write Sanskrit as the etymon.·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 03:03, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Tibidibi: English Sanskrit and Prakrit also have no final vowel, but they are presented as being from Sanskrit (see the references at those entries). We cannot be sure if this word really be from the Hindustani learned loan:
- @Inqilābī: Northern Indian pronunciation of Sanskrit does not feature schwa deletion, only modern languages do. The mantras, etc. are pronounced with the schwa. Nobody speaking Sanskrit removes the last a. I can give you an example right here: in the popular śloka of the Bhagavadgītā - नियतं कुरु कर्म त्वं कर्म ज्यायो ह्यकर्मणः। शरीरयात्रापि च ते न प्रसिद्धयेदकर्मणः॥ (niyataṃ kuru karma tvaṃ karma jyāyo hyakarmaṇaḥ. śarīrayātrāpi ca te na prasiddhayedakarmaṇaḥ.) (see ज्यायस् (jyā́yas)), in शरीरयात्रापि (śarīrayātrāpi) (शरीर + यात्रा + अपि), no one pronounces it as /ɕɐ.ɾiːɾ.jɑːt̪ˈɾɑː.pi/, but /ɕɐ.ɾiː.ɾɐ.jɑːt̪ˈɾɑː.pi/. Long time ago, when I was still learning basics of Sanskrit, my Ācaryā told me about this very clearly, and with this śloka only as an example:
you know sandhi. In Sanskrit, that a is not just to be shown in sandhi-viccheda —— ś + a + r + ī + r + a —— it is to be spoken like any other a. Try speaking शरी - रया - त्रापि (śarī - rayā - trāpi) to get it. I'm pointing out that there is actually emphasis on pronouncing the last a. 🔥ಶಬ್ದಶೋಧಕ🔥 05:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Inqilābī: Northern Indian pronunciation of Sanskrit does not feature schwa deletion, only modern languages do. The mantras, etc. are pronounced with the schwa. Nobody speaking Sanskrit removes the last a. I can give you an example right here: in the popular śloka of the Bhagavadgītā - नियतं कुरु कर्म त्वं कर्म ज्यायो ह्यकर्मणः। शरीरयात्रापि च ते न प्रसिद्धयेदकर्मणः॥ (niyataṃ kuru karma tvaṃ karma jyāyo hyakarmaṇaḥ. śarīrayātrāpi ca te na prasiddhayedakarmaṇaḥ.) (see ज्यायस् (jyā́yas)), in शरीरयात्रापि (śarīrayātrāpi) (शरीर + यात्रा + अपि), no one pronounces it as /ɕɐ.ɾiːɾ.jɑːt̪ˈɾɑː.pi/, but /ɕɐ.ɾiː.ɾɐ.jɑːt̪ˈɾɑː.pi/. Long time ago, when I was still learning basics of Sanskrit, my Ācaryā told me about this very clearly, and with this śloka only as an example: