Talk:その他の雑酒

Wiktionary:Requested entries:Japanese/Non-romaji

• その他の雑酒 - The "third (kind of?) beer". No-malt beer in comparison to happoshu, which is low-malt beer. May or may not also just be called 雑酒 or 雑種 and pronouned "zasshu"?? — hippietrail (talk) 06:29, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

  This literally means "other types of 雑酒" (雑酒 seems to be the term that needs an entry). —suzukaze (t・c) 06:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

  Yes that is the literal meaning. But Googling around at least in English + Japanese you will find people saying this is also the specific term used for "malt-free beer" and that the unwieldy name is due to the name of a tax category relating to malt content. Now the English speakers could be misled due to insufficient Japanese skill and this story spreading as a meme. But if the same things are also said in Japanese by native speakers then this may be a true non-SOP sense. I defer to the Japanese speakers to decide, but I can provide links if necessary. — hippietrail (talk) 11:35, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

  Perhaps the actual term for "malt-free beer" is 第三のビール as there is a ja.wikipedia article with that title, it being one of the places on ja.wikipedia where the former term is used. — hippietrail (talk) 11:44, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

• hippietrail, I might be a little unclear on the question here. To address what I see raised above:
  • If it's about その他の雑酒, that's not an integral term -- as suzukaze notes, that's just その他 (sono ta, “other”) + の (no, possessive particle) + 雑酒 (zasshu, literally “miscellaneous alcohol”, as defined by Japanese law as any kind of alcoholic beverage that does not fall into the categories of 1) sake, 2) mixed drinks, 3) shochu, 4) mirin, 5) beer, 6) wine or fruit wine, 7) whiskey, bourbon, or scotch, 8) spirits, or 9) liqueurs; this often refers to 発泡酒 and 第三のビール, but this is a broad category that includes other things as well).
  • If it's about 第三のビール (dai-san no bīru, literally “third beer”), that is an integral term -- as you note, it's another odd manifestation of the Japanese tax code, which I believe appeared after later legal revisions made even 発泡酒 less attractive from a pricing and profitability standpoint. I've encountered this 第三のビール term for some time in my translation business. English sources tend to render this pretty directly as third beer: google:"third beer" Japan.

It looks like we need to create entries for 雑酒 and 第三のビール, and presumably also for third beer. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Great work, thanks all. It looks right that 雑酒 and 第三のビール are both used as "integral terms" and some people blogging about Japanese topics in English may mistakenly think その他の雑酒 is also integral, or I myself have perhaps misread those bloggers. I leave it to you (-: As for the English term, I thought I'd seen it translated also as "the third beer, so might want to check that. Since we have our bar set to a low three durably archived uses of a term either or both probably does qualify as an English word calqued from Japanese and used only in the context of Japanese beers. — hippietrail (talk) 05:18, 6 February 2016 (UTC)