Talk:六安
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@沈澄心 [1] --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:00, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: But 六安 is pronounced Liù'ān in [2] (9:18). --沈澄心✉ 02:42, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @沈澄心, Justinrleung It all comes down to whether this is a descriptive or a prescriptive dictionary. This characterization as merely "common local pronunciation" is contradicted by the following sources, which show this is way more than merely "local":
(1) https://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz/gnsquicksearch.asp ('DB32071FA1D267A3E040D6A40FF73EDC', 'DC') Lu’an (Approved - N)
(2) Xia Zhengnong (夏征农); Chen Zhili (陈至立), eds. (September 2009). 辞海：第六版彩图本 [Cihai (Sixth Edition in Color)] (in Chinese). Shanghai: Shanghai Lexicographical Publishing House. p. 1451. →ISBN. 六 (lù) (...)用于地名。如：六安；(...) 六安(...) 市名。在安徽省西部。(...)
(3) Putonghua Pronunciation Committee (普通话审音委员会) (20 December 1962), 文字改革月刊社 (ed.), 普通話异讀詞审音表初稿(第三編), Wenzi Gaige (文字改革) (in Chinese), Beijing: 文字改革出版社 (85): 8, (...)六安(安徽) Lù'ān(...)
The English speaking world knows what this place is called; Beijing likes to make up names- check the citations at Lu'an including Xinhua News Agency. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:44, 11 June 2021 (UTC)- @Geographyinitiative: Okay, "common local pronunciation" is inaccurate, but it's no longer standard because newer dictionaries do not list this as a pronunciation. I don't think "variant" is necessarily an inaccurate description based on what the standards say. We need to describe the actual standards as well as how people actually say it - and label them accordingly. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 02:52, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: Also, even if Beijing is "making up" pronunciations, that's how reporters are reading it on the CCTV, as shown by the video that 沈澄心 linked to, as well as these videos: [3] [4] [5]. I'm not sure how people are trained in the Xinhua News Agency, but CCTV reporters need to follow the standard pretty accurately. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:06, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- This is a matter of contention that will never stop, so I'll just stop my participation here. I'll be sticking with the local government, a NIMA map (see Lu'an), the railroad ticket (from flickr- see first comment above), the New York Times (see cites on Lu'an), the Global Times, Cambridge University Press, CNN, South China Morning Post, China Daily, Xinhua News Agency, the Financial Times, Cihai, Yiduci Shenyin Biao, and GEOnet- you all stick to some video online. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:09, 11 June 2021 (UTC) (modified)
- @Geographyinitiative: These are not just some online videos, but news reports from the CCTV. We are also basing our edits on the most recent editions of Xiandai Hanyu Cidian and Xiandai Hanyu Guifan Cidian. The version of Yiduci Shenyin Biao you are citing was never officially recognized because it was still under discussion. The fact that the current version of Yiduci Shenyin Biao, as well as Xiandai Hanyu Cidian and Xiandai Hanyu Guifan Cidian, doesn't include two pronunciations would mean that liù is the only standard pronunciation for 六 according to the PRC standards. Of course, both pronunciations are valid, but we need to describe both how people speak and the language is regulated. It's a hard issue to entangle, as we can see here in this article (note that even local signs are inconsistent and show both Liu and Lu), as well as the different voices here. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:27, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- Baidu Baike: [6] [lù ān] 外文名Lu'an. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:56, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: These are not just some online videos, but news reports from the CCTV. We are also basing our edits on the most recent editions of Xiandai Hanyu Cidian and Xiandai Hanyu Guifan Cidian. The version of Yiduci Shenyin Biao you are citing was never officially recognized because it was still under discussion. The fact that the current version of Yiduci Shenyin Biao, as well as Xiandai Hanyu Cidian and Xiandai Hanyu Guifan Cidian, doesn't include two pronunciations would mean that liù is the only standard pronunciation for 六 according to the PRC standards. Of course, both pronunciations are valid, but we need to describe both how people speak and the language is regulated. It's a hard issue to entangle, as we can see here in this article (note that even local signs are inconsistent and show both Liu and Lu), as well as the different voices here. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:27, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- This is a matter of contention that will never stop, so I'll just stop my participation here. I'll be sticking with the local government, a NIMA map (see Lu'an), the railroad ticket (from flickr- see first comment above), the New York Times (see cites on Lu'an), the Global Times, Cambridge University Press, CNN, South China Morning Post, China Daily, Xinhua News Agency, the Financial Times, Cihai, Yiduci Shenyin Biao, and GEOnet- you all stick to some video online. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:09, 11 June 2021 (UTC) (modified)
- @Geographyinitiative: Also, even if Beijing is "making up" pronunciations, that's how reporters are reading it on the CCTV, as shown by the video that 沈澄心 linked to, as well as these videos: [3] [4] [5]. I'm not sure how people are trained in the Xinhua News Agency, but CCTV reporters need to follow the standard pretty accurately. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:06, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Geographyinitiative: Okay, "common local pronunciation" is inaccurate, but it's no longer standard because newer dictionaries do not list this as a pronunciation. I don't think "variant" is necessarily an inaccurate description based on what the standards say. We need to describe the actual standards as well as how people actually say it - and label them accordingly. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 02:52, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @沈澄心, Justinrleung It all comes down to whether this is a descriptive or a prescriptive dictionary. This characterization as merely "common local pronunciation" is contradicted by the following sources, which show this is way more than merely "local":