Talk:Eucharist

Deletion debate

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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Rfd-redundant "The sacrament of Holy Communion" redundant to "The ceremony of Holy Communion. This meaning is synonymous with service of the Mass or Eastern Divine Liturgy", at least according to [[sacrament]].​—msh210℠ 18:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

All three of the existing definitions seem to me be different aspects of a single underlying entity. We often retain such aspectual distinctions as separate senses for secular terms. If it violates our secular sensibilities to have such distinctions for religious terms, we could indulge ourselves. The potential for endless refinement of sectarian definitions exists.

All three of the senses need some kind of context tags because their specific aspectual meanings cannot be assumed to be known outside of the fields of religious studies and the specific religions in which "Eucharist" are used. If we had an attractive format for subsense designation (eg, letters, "1.1" numbering), aspects such as these would be best shown as subsenses, I think. I am not sure that there is any sense of Eucharist that could appear without a context tag. DCDuring TALK 19:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Not seeing two aspects. Sacrament we have as "A sacred act or ceremony in Christianity". If that's right, then the two senses I said are redundant either are redundant or badly need rewording. Unless I'm missing something?​—msh210℠ 19:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I imagine the distinction was supposed to be Eucharist in the sense of "Join us for Sunday Eucharist" referring to the entire ceremony vs. Eucharist in the sense of "The blessing comes after the Eucharist", where it is the specific rite to be enacted. Conrad.Irwin 19:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

If that's right, then keep this, yes, but it needs fixing.​—msh210℠ 19:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Keep, I think. In my experience, there seem to be three senses:

1. The Communion ceremony itself, wherein you take wine and wafer.
   • Note that this is not necessarily a sacrament. For the Roman Catholic Church and certain others, it's a sacrament; but there are plenty of churches that do it without considering it a sacrament. As far as I can tell, the sense is the same regardless of whether its referent is a sacrament in its church.
2. A service of which said ceremony is a part.
   • This one might be a bit harder to attest, but I'm pretty sure it's real.
3. The wine and wafer taken in said ceremony.

Our sense 2, which you're RFDing, corresponds to my sense 1. Our sense 1 seems to be a contradictory attempt to cover my senses 1 and 2 and claim that they're "synonymous". (N.B.: it's quite possible that I'm misunderstanding something here.) Our sense 3 corresponds to my sense 3.

Do we have any editors who are active in relevant denominations?

—Ruakh_TALK 19:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I sing in the choir thrice a week, so that probably counts as active. I've tried to improve the distinction, comments are welcome. (keep obviously, if this is a vote). Conrad.Irwin 20:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Detagged. Thanks, y'all.​—msh210℠ 20:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)