Talk:dare fastidio
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The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
Seems to me like it should be moved to darsi fastidio. This is how the native-language Italian dictionaries have the entry, and it is the only possible construction (i.e. the verb requires a reflexive particle). This is the same rationale for why we deleted fare male and moved it to farsi male. Same logic applies here. Imetsia (talk) 23:33, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
- Moved per nom. - -sche (discuss) 01:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Imetsia, -sche Sorry for interjecting, but it seems the entry would be better represented as dare fastidio, using the
{{indtr}}template like this: (transitive with a or with no preposition (+ a dative pronoun)). What do you think? — GianWiki (talk) 09:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)- I would be comfortable with that solution. However, we need to have consistent entries. If we decide to use
{{indtr}}on dare fastidio, then it feels to me like we should move farsi male back to fare male and use the same template there. I'm also a bit compelled by another logic arguing that since the native-language Italian dictionaries only have the reflexive entries "farsi male" and "darsi fastidio," we should follow the same approach (a reasoning similar to that in WT:LEMMING). So I could go both ways on this one, but in any case, the entries should be consistent. Imetsia (talk) 14:46, 12 May 2020 (UTC)- @Imetsia Just as an example, the Treccani entry for fastidio shows the locution as dare fastidio (the only dictionary I have in my house, the Garzanti, does the same thing), just like the Tommaseo-Bellini (you have to look up fastidio). As for the consistency, I don't think changing the other entries is that much of an issue. — GianWiki (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
- @GianWiki Treccani lists it as both. It lists the locution as "darsi fastidio" at one point, but it first has it as "dare, recare, sentire fastidio." Google's default Italian-language dictionary (whose name I haven't been able to find) lists it as "darsi fastidio." But since Garzanti lists it as "dare fastidio," I suppose there isn't a consistent, objectively correct way to list the entry. So point taken. If we can revert "farsi male" to "fare male," then I have no objections to going back to dare fastidio. In fact, I always thought that "fare male" would be better than "farsi male" because the reflexive particle isn't strictly necessary (a sentence like "ho fatto male a mio fratello" seems perfectly fine). Imetsia (talk) 19:07, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
- @Imetsia Just as an example, the Treccani entry for fastidio shows the locution as dare fastidio (the only dictionary I have in my house, the Garzanti, does the same thing), just like the Tommaseo-Bellini (you have to look up fastidio). As for the consistency, I don't think changing the other entries is that much of an issue. — GianWiki (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would be comfortable with that solution. However, we need to have consistent entries. If we decide to use
- Yes, I think the "dare" form is much more common. (and I notice that the headword wasn't changed when it was moved) SemperBlotto (talk) 10:00, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aha, thanks for the additional feedback, I'll un-move it soon, or one of you is welcome to. :) I was waiting to see if anyone else would weigh in on what should be done in these cases (including also the case of fare male/farsi male mentioned above: should it also be moved?). Who else do we have around here who speaks Italian? @La Nuova Idea (mia)? - -sche (discuss) 18:33, 19 May 2020 (UTC)