Talk:dare spettacolo di sé
Latest comment: 1 month ago by Imetsia in topic RFD discussion: May 2021–May 2024
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Italian SOP as dare spettacolo + di + sé. Imetsia (talk) 18:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- I don’t know. We have English make a spectacle of oneself as English idiom; can one generalize this non-reflexively in Italian and say something like ha dato spettacolo di sua suocera in an idiomatic sense of someone having made a fool of their mother-in-law? --Lambiam 10:44, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- I did find a few "dare spettacolo" + "di/del/della" + [Noun] on Google. But these are few and are typically in the form "dare spettacolo di" something's grandor, power, etc. (using the first definition of "dare spettacolo"). But I would point out that dare spettacolo in itself means "to make a spectacle of oneself." The added "di sé" just emphasizes that. Saying "ha dato spettacolo di sua suocera" is as ungrammatical in Italian as saying "he gave a spectacle of himself of his mother-in-law" would be in English. Imetsia (talk) 16:02, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- Can you give a few unambiguous examples? Those I see where the spectacle is that of the maker themselves, it just means "to show off", "to put on a show" with generally a positive connotation ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5]). I also wonder if, in existing cases, the second sense of dare spettacolo is not simply a straightforward sarcastic use of irony (like when someone remarks “that was hilarious” after hearing someone tell an insipid joke that falls flat with the audience), which would mean it does not qualify for inclusion. --Lambiam 15:38, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I fully follow your argument, but I have updated the entry to reflect transitivity, the di preposition, etc. As the page now reflects, dare spettacolo can be used with "di" to mean "show off" or "put on a show" with generally positive connotations (but not always positive, e.g. [6]). I still think the "di sé" is just to add emphasis - "rafforzativo" as it would be said in Italian - to the second sense of "to make a fool of oneself." So the entry is still SOP as far as I can tell. Finally, I really doubt that the second sense is a sarcastic use of irony. Imetsia (talk) 19:21, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- Can you give a few unambiguous examples? Those I see where the spectacle is that of the maker themselves, it just means "to show off", "to put on a show" with generally a positive connotation ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5]). I also wonder if, in existing cases, the second sense of dare spettacolo is not simply a straightforward sarcastic use of irony (like when someone remarks “that was hilarious” after hearing someone tell an insipid joke that falls flat with the audience), which would mean it does not qualify for inclusion. --Lambiam 15:38, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- I did find a few "dare spettacolo" + "di/del/della" + [Noun] on Google. But these are few and are typically in the form "dare spettacolo di" something's grandor, power, etc. (using the first definition of "dare spettacolo"). But I would point out that dare spettacolo in itself means "to make a spectacle of oneself." The added "di sé" just emphasizes that. Saying "ha dato spettacolo di sua suocera" is as ungrammatical in Italian as saying "he gave a spectacle of himself of his mother-in-law" would be in English. Imetsia (talk) 16:02, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- RFD-kept by no consensus. Imetsia (talk (more)) 23:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)