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This page conflicts with the page this. On the latter the word these is only a (distantly?) related 'determiner'. Here these is supposed to be its 'plural'. If determoers have plurals why aren't they just adjectival pronouns? Jcwf 17:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

They really are pronouns, and the part of speech called "determiner" is a vaguely defined category depending of how fancy do you want to sound. What I'd like to know is when exactly in the course of history of English language, all the way from PIE *tód along Anglo-Saxon þis to modern English this did the pronoun "cease to exist" and turned to a something called "determiner" ^_^. If you take a look at the w:Determiner (class), you'll see that the "determiners" listed there are really adjectives, pronouns, numerals.. --Ivan Štambuk 18:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)