User talk:rhmccullough

Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Jump to: navigation, search

The entry you created (mKR) seems to have been a protologism and has been deleted. If you are sure that it is a real word, please provide evidence of this word being used in durably archived media (mainly printed books, and usenet groups) as required by our inclusion criteria. For a term to be included, it must be used by at least three different authors over more than a year, and the authors must be actually using the word, not just explaining its meaning or stating that it exists. If you can find any such quotations, please add them to Citations:mKR. Conrad.Irwin 16:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.

If you are unfamiliar with wiki editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.

These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:

  • Entry layout (EL) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing page for a similar word, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
  • Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary, though it may be a bit technical and longwinded. The most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
  • If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide for Wikipedia users useful.
  • The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
  • A glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.
  • If you have anything to ask about or suggest, we have several discussion rooms. Feel free to ask any other editors in person if you have any problems or question, by posting a message on their talk page.

You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage. This shows which languages you know, so other editors know which languages you'll be working on, and what they can ask you for help with.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Wiktionary:Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~~~~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.

Again, welcome! Conrad.Irwin 16:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


I just saved my quotations in Citations:mKR

I've added the quotes to the page (for the ones I could find) however I don't think this demonstrates independent usage as our CFI require. Conrad.Irwin 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


1. Thank you for filling in the "quotations". I didn't understand what the template "words" meant.

2. I'm having trouble understanding your requirements for "independence". My contacts have been spread through a number of different communities.

Icon and Unicon language developers (neither language in Wiktionary)
W3C standards developers - for RDF and OWL (both languages in Wiktionary)
Stanford University - TAP knowledge base
Cyc Corporation - Research Cyc and OpenCyc knowledge bases
mKR/mKE users

Rhmccullough 20:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


Does "independence" mean that I should go through the email archives and pick good examples of my interactions with

W3C, Stanford University, Cyc Corporation, mKRmKE users?
Rhmccullough 21:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
As you are the creator, independence would I suppose mean a group of people discussing it without you. Conrad.Irwin 22:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


Now that I have corrected the 2002 entry in the Citations, all the quotes were written by me. I could pick all Citations written by other people. But I was still involved in the discussions. I would be hard pressed to find cases where they continued the discussion of mKR without my input. Rhmccullough 23:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sadly that's the point of CFI, we supposedly aren't interested in words that people make up on the spot - something to do with trying to appear respectable (though I doubt anything'll come of it ;). See you around. Conrad.Irwin 00:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


Just let me be sure I understand.

The only Citations that are acceptable are ones that someone else has written, addressed to some third person.
Is that correct?

Rhmccullough 00:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

At the very least, however there are other constraints, for example the meaning of the word must not be explained. Also this is the name of a specific entity, and as a rule they are not included (perl, VB6, Toshiba). While at the end of the day it is a community decision, I suspect that you are wasting your time in trying. Conrad.Irwin 00:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


I can only think of two instances which sound like what you want.

A W3C developer listed mKR/mKE on his webpage of available tools for the Semantic Web.
A Unicon developer listed mKR/mKE on his webpage as an interesting project implemented using the Unicon language.
Would these two constitute sufficient Citations for mKR?

Rhmccullough 00:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

No, another criteria is that they must be durably archived, which (for the moment) we do not consider the internet to be (though usenet and mailing-lists are generally acceptable). If you read CFI it gives you the full details. Conrad.Irwin 00:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


You already have a lot of specific entities in Wiktionary, e.g., Fortran, COBOL. Rhmccullough 00:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

True, possibly incorrectly - we're always imperfect. If you feel I'm being unfair, then file a Request for verification and let the community decide. Conrad.Irwin 00:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
PS. You can use the [edit] button on the right to reply to threads without always starting a new heading.

ok. using the [edit] button.

A related question -- what is the connection between entries in Wiktionary and Wikipedia? I noticed today that "Notation 3", aka "N3", (another programming language used by W3C personnel) is on Wikipedia but not on Wiktionary. Rhmccullough 01:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an attempt to build an encyclopedia run by the Wikimedia foundation, Wiktionary is an attempt to build a multilingual dictionary run by the same foundation. Two seperate projects, though we share several contributors. Conrad.Irwin 08:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


I did a Google search on links to my website, and found 4 new quotes. Rhmccullough 09:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I've started a wider discussion at WT:RFV#mKR as I'm clearly not communicating well enough with you. Please feel free to comment there, though you may have to wait for several for a decision from that page. Conrad.Irwin 10:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

MKR, MKE[edit]

I notice that the Wiktionary search engine already maps MKR to mKR, and MKE to mKE. Rhmccullough 06:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I have created two good entries for mKR and mKE.


Rhmccullough 07:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not include adjective meaning for mKR and mKE. How important is it? Rhmccullough 07:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The adjective meaning is likely only attributive use of the noun, so not important (unless you can find cites showing it to mean something else). The example sentences that you provide should be in italics and not read like advertising. Conrad.Irwin 08:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
The uses I was thinking of -- "mKR language" and "mKE program" -- are redundant, but I think pretty common in everyday speech. Is that "attributive"? Is that acceptable grammatical practice?
I didn't mean those examples to be "advertising" -- just "interesting" and "meaningful". Do you have some suggestions for "neutral" statements? Rhmccullough 08:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that's attributive, but I don't think its an adjective either (though I'm not certain either way). The new examples are better, thank you. Conrad.Irwin 16:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at Rhmccullough 21:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

That looks ok, and it's the kind of thing that might be included over there, maybe best to concentrate on building up that article as opposed to wrangling for a dictionary entry. Conrad.Irwin 21:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I've had a go at improving w:mKR (programming language) by using some of the more advanced wikisyntax - you may (of course) revert my changes, or further build upon them. Conrad.Irwin 22:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I like your changes. I think you have greatly improved the look of the page. Thanks! Rhmccullough 22:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
No problem. You may wish to review my attempt to highlight keywords in the syntax as I've never used the language before. Conrad.Irwin 23:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I was doing exactly that just before I came back here. You did pretty good -- only missed a couple of keywords. A lot of the professional scholars like to make the keywords bold -- makes for easier reading, but detracts from the "English-like" nature of mKR. Rhmccullough 23:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Initial letter[edit]

Due to the software we use, username's all start with an upper-case letter. It's possible that adding {{DISPLAYTITLE:User:rhmccullough}} will make it appear with a lowercase letter, but I don't know if that feature is turned on here. Wiktionary only redirects to your lowercase page because we found that people often mixed initial case up, and so if a page exists with the lowercase title, a hacky javascript redirection sends them to where we assumed they meant to go. If an entry is created with an uppercase letter, or if there is no corresponding lowercase entry, then the redirect doesn't happen; see Adsdsdssdsds or Pension for example. Conrad.Irwin 16:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds complicated. Can't say I really understand. I don't recall having this problem on Wikipedia. Maybe I'm all Rhmccullough there, and didn't notice. I notice you managed to get a lower case "m" in "mKR (...)". Is it just the Template:lowercase that did it? I plan to study the new "raw" page, and see how you worked your magic on the display. Rhmccullough 22:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Their {{lowercase}} is just a wrapper for DISPLAYTITLE so it depends whether that feature is turned on on Wiktionary or not. TO test it I've included the magic word in this edit. Conrad.Irwin 23:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Appears not to work, sorry. You'll just have to add a note like msh210 does. Conrad.Irwin 23:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Infobox reply[edit]

I've replied on my talk page Conrad.Irwin 14:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)