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Welcome to the Information desk of Wiktionary, a place where newcomers can ask questions about words and about Wiktionary, ask for help, or post miscellaneous ideas that don’t fit in any of the other rooms.

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For past questions, see /Archives.

May 2015

Basic linguistics[edit]

Hi. I want to learn more about the science of linguistics, like about morphology/phonetics/IPA/etc. This is not taught in my high school. Is there a way I can learn about basic linguistics science with basic wordings? As in like middle school classroom typed language? I like things I can understand easily. Thanks. NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 04:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Also it has to be something online and free. NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 04:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
There's a textbook for linguistics at Wikibooks, so it's online and free, but I don't know how good it is or how easy it would be for a middle-schooler to understand. Linguistics isn't usually taught before the undergraduate university level, so that is usually the target audience for textbooks. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


globe, focusing on the Spanish writing Mar del Zur.

I was quite excited to come across this globe in our shop. The writing, not that you can see all of it, is in Spanish and Latin. However the Spanish is archaic, it features the writing mar del zur and not pictured, mar del nort. This is obviously not contemporary Spanish. Can anyone work out when the spelling zur was used? It would give me an insight into how old the piece is. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Google Books Ngrams isn't looking promising. Deliberate misspellings? Not Spanish? Renard Migrant (talk) 15:43, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
If you look at w:Abraham Ortelius, you'll see a map from 1589 that uses that spelling. Ortelius was Flemish, but was in the service of the king of Spain. You'll probably get better results by looking at the place names to see if there are any historical clues from what different places are called. Of course, there's always the possibility that this a modern copy of an older globe, with decorative details like dragons thrown in for artistic effect. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:09, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Where's "our shop"? I'm coming to buy that globe. Equinox 02:52, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I found a hit from 1748. --Type56op9 (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


Are there any good resources on the Navarro-Aragonese language? I’d like to add some words. --Romanophile (talk) 09:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

The first place I'd look is in the books cited in the footnote section of Navarro-Aragonese. It doesn't actually have an ISO code; do we want to create one for it, or shall we consider it an archaic variety of Aragonese (code an) and tag it with a context label like {{label|an|Navarro-Aragonese}}? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Defining the name of the language would be the first thing to do. SemperBlotto (talk) 08:05, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
[1], [2] (watch out for normalisations). — Ungoliant (falai) 15:58, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Do we also have a term for the ancestor of Asturian? What is it? --Romanophile (talk) 10:57, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Old Leonese (roa-ole). — Ungoliant (falai) 15:32, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Problem creating new entry[edit]

I intended to create a new entry for "ZOPA" (= Zone of Possible Agreement), but when I follow the instructions at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page, I simply get taken to the existing "zopa". So how do I create "ZOPA"? 02:45, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Click this link [3] Equinox 02:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I see that someone else has now already created the entry. I think it would be useful to update the instructions at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page to include the information about how to create an entry when a case variant already exists. I would be happy to do this myself, except I am unable to edit the help page. 17:19, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The easy way is to create a redlink on an existing page and then click that. For example, if you type ZORI in the search box, it just takes you to the page zori (which is a relatively new feature; when the help page was written that didn't happen), but if you make the link ZORI on a page and then click it, you can start a new page. (You don't even have to save the page with the redlink on it; just click "Show preview" and then click the redlink.) —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The IP is right, auto-redirects are quite irritating when you want to create an entry and the title already exists with variants caps or diacritics. For genevre yesterday it took me to génèvre so I had to type directly into the URL https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/genevre to stop it taking me to génèvre. I've been here since 2007 and it's taking me a while to get my head around it! Renard Migrant (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The easiest way is to go to the existing entry and add an {{also}} template at the top. That generates a red link for the one you want to add. Don't forget to do the same in reverse. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


Is there a synonym for this word that’s less offensive to ancient Germanians? --Romanophile (talk) 08:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

List of wiktionary user promotons[edit]

Could someone give me the link of wiktionary user promotions list? It is a list of user jobs I guess like admins and stewarts. I cannot seem to find the page

Interwiki problem with proverbs[edit]

The names of pages with proverbs start with minuscule letters and do not end with full stops, even when the proverbs are sentences (barking dogs seldom bite). Czech Wiktionary has a different attitude: all the proverbs that are sentences there start with capital letters and end with periods (cs:Pes, který štěká, nekouše.). Is there any way how to connect the English Wiktionary page pes, který štěká, nekouše with the Czech Wiktionary page of the same proverb? They are the same proverbs, the same wording, the same spelling, everything is the same, only the attitude to naming proverb pages is different. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 20:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Probably the best way would be to make a redirect from Pes, který štěká, nekouše. to pes, který štěká, nekouše here at en-wikt as well as a redirect in the opposite direction at cs-wikt. That way the bots will connect one language's entry to the other language's redirect and vice versa, and both pages can be found. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 11:43, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

The best way is actually to correct bots to not assume that interwikis will be always in the very same form.
Danny B. (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I Agree. However until this is done I think we have to accept Angr's suggestion. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 12:12, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

There are two problems.

  1. When is bot running in -wiktionary mode, it ignores all pages, which have not identical names, even if they are redirects. Without this mode it will follow all redirects (there are in some small languages redirects from english words to local language).
  2. When is bot running with manual conrol, there exists some abuse filter in en.wikt which prevents to save differenrt form (example). JAn Dudík (talk) 13:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I think there are not many cases like that, so it could be done manually. Unfortunately, it is impossible too. If you do it, you get abuse filter warning first, and if you continue, your edit is promptly reverted anyway, no matter that the edit was explained in the summary in detail. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 18:26, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

newbie spellin query[edit]

how do i find a word in the wiktionary if i do not know what the proper spelling is?

newbie spellin query ariola[edit]

how do i find a word in the wiktionary if i do not know what the proper spelling is? ariola

The search mechanism will try to suggest similar words, but it's not perfect. Perhaps aureola? Equinox 22:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Almost certainly areola. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:33, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

secret underworld auction[edit]

On the TV show New Tricks I heard a UK (criminal jargon?) name for a secret underworld auction, presumably for stolen art and other similar items, that was something like nablus. Does anyone know a good spelling for this? DCDuring TALK 00:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

getting started with adding kanji definitions[edit]

As I'm fairly new to any serious editing/entering of information that require sources, I would like information on how to properly edit entries. Would anyone be so kind as to get me started or direct me to relevant information?

Specifically, as I'm studying Japanese Kanji, I occasionally run into words that haven't got a definition yet and before contributing I would need to know which sources are considered valid, what issues I should avoid with regards to "non-latin" characters, proper romanization.

I am familiar with basic editing and format coding, apart from correctly adding sources, so 'Help:How to edit a page' unfortunately isn't providing me with anything useful or new.

Thanks in advance, OmikronWeapon (talk) 10:21, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Generally speaking, you don’t need sources when you enter definitions. You might ask @Atitarev if he has any suggestions or needs as far as entering definitions for Japanese Kanji. You may be thinking of Wikipedia, where everything has to be sourced. Here we usually don’t need sources (as long as you’re not copying a lot of copyrighted text word for word). —Stephen (Talk) 08:21, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Use of the term "CC-BY-SA"[edit]

The Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license is not abbreviated to "CC-BY-SA"; Creative Commons' official abbreviation is "CC BY-SA", per their website and others. I'd like to get consensus to deprecate the term "CC-BY-SA" and replace it in all visible places with "CC BY-SA". Thanks, --L235 (talk) enwiki 21:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

There are... quite a lot of these, and unfortunately neither the search engine nor Google can distinguish between hyphens and spaces, so I don't know how many. Given that the form with the hyphen is pretty common anyway, is it worth the work? ObsequiousNewt (εἴρηκα|πεποίηκα) 17:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
@ObsequiousNewt: Well, there doesn't need to be a systemic race to find them and get rid of them; just a passive "if I notice it I'll change it over". Does that sound fine? --L235 (talk) enwiki 18:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC) Looks like first ping didn't work; repinging: @ObsequiousNewt: --L235 (talk) enwiki 18:13, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I think he means that they cannot distinguish hyphens and spaces on the internet, so we can’t get an idea about which spelling is more common. "CC-BY-SA" is certainly used in printed books, and that makes it a valid spelling as far as we are concerned. See here for some examples in printed works. If there are three or more, that’s enough for it to be included here. —Stephen (Talk) 03:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
@Stephen G. Brown: (Sorry for late reply) I mean, can we change it to the non-hyphenated version within Wiktionary policies and project pages only. Thanks, --L235 (talk) enwiki 21:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

June 2015


If an adjective is neither comparative nor superlative, what is it? --Romanophile (talk) 11:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

positive. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:09, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


felting (a noun)is a word used in the U.K. by the building trade for something to do with roofing, perhaps about tin at the edge of the roofing tiles. Because I couldn't remember exactly i turned to Wiktionary but couldn't find any path. Rameshkkhanna (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


It has been noted that the term WTF has been added to the Webster's Unabridged dictionary.

Here in Flagstaff Arizona we have bumper stickers with WTF in large letters, and in small letters it says Welcome to Flaagstaff

How do I submit my sandbox[edit]

Submitted this to Wikipedia, twice, second review came back that, "it probably belongs in Wiktionary." Bobmodikiw (talk) 01:38, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Can you show it to us? —CodeCat 17:22, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I beleive its properly formatted, entered a new Wiktionary word, food broker Bobmodikiw (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Faux Amis[edit]

Is the a specific rubric/heading to use in a word entry to list a faux amis -- a warning or advisory that the entry does not mean the same as a specified word that it superficially resembles? Thanks -- 07:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I think that should become clear from the definition that's in the entry. If one term resembles "chair" but means "table" then the entry will say "table" which makes it obvious. —CodeCat 17:24, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
  • i just want to translate english to french language --07:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Same thing. There is no specific heading to mark faux amis. See prétendre. —Stephen (Talk) 12:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:color panel[edit]

Requesting the contents be modified to not involve tables (there is absolutely no need to use HTML tables for something so basic). See Template_talk:color_panelsuzukaze (tc) 22:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

We are in the midst of considering forbidding HTML tables.
I assume you would keep the template-default logic in the replacement. DCDuring TALK 23:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The word reprise[edit]

What is the correct pronunciation? re- PRIZE or re- preeze ?

See reprise, which says /ɹɪˈpɹiːz/ . This means that it is "re- preeze". Not "re- PRAIZ". NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 02:57, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


Look at the IPA pronunciation... "/ˈeiːjɪnˌnapn/". I was making Wikitoslav articles when I realized that the sounds "pn"... How can two sounds go together without an ə in between it? Like /ˈeiːjɪnˌnapən/ ? Can someone please explain this to me? NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 02:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Nasals are sonorants, so they can serve as syllables without a vowel. I'm sure there are lots of people who say happen so that it would rhyme with this (I tend to pronounce it like "hapm" or "ha'm"). It's true that syllabic consonants should, strictly speaking, have a diacritic under them, but that's strictly speaking. Also, there are all kinds of what you would consider strange consonant clusters in all kinds of languages: "gd", "dn", and "gb" are just a few. The last one is mostly restricted to Africa, but the first two are European. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Also, not all languages follow the same rules of syllable structure as English does. Just because English doesn't allow syllables like /napn/, that doesn't mean Icelandic doesn't. In Icelandic, /napn/ might really be a single syllable, in which case there shouldn't be a syllabic diacritic under the /n/. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:43, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Full الفِعْل المَجْهُول Conjugation[edit]

Is there any reason the full Conjugation of أَتَى in الفِعْل المَجْهُول not done?

I do not find any entry named الفِعْل المَجْهُول. I don’t know what you are talking about. —Stephen (Talk) 10:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Lowercase {{wikipedia}} pages[edit]

Either letting it automatically get the page name or manually entering it lowercase, the Wikipedia template will always link to the uppercase page on the wiki. In the Lojban language capital letters aren't used, so that creates a problem. For example, on the zdotu'a page it will always link to the Lojban Wikipedia page [4] as opposed to the [5] as it should. How exactly could I get a lowercase link to a Wikipedia page?

Brantmeierz (talk) 15:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not case sensitive for the first character in the page title, so this shouldn't be a problem. —CodeCat 15:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
He is linking to the Lojban Wikipedia, not the English one. It is case-sensitive. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

List of wiktionary user promotions[edit]

Could someone give me the link of wiktionary user promotions list? It is a list of user jobs I guess like admins and stewarts. I cannot seem to find the page —This unsigned comment was added by (talk).

Here is a list of user rights:
  • bot
  • administrator
  • bureaucrat
  • steward
  • account creator
  • importer
  • transwiki importer
  • oversight
  • check user
  • confirmed user
  • IP block exempt
  • autopatroller
  • Flood flag
  • patroller
  • rollbacker
Note that most of these are almost never used in Wiktionary. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:35, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
See WT:Admin, I think the important ones are covered there. —Stephen (Talk) 07:50, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Clarification on woot (1990s) as related/not to woth (Middle English)?[edit]

This definition of the word woot implies that it is a modern word, a corruption or alternative of "w00t", an internet/texting expression. However, the definition then goes on to relate "woth" and "witen" apparently as different forms of the word from Middle English. How do we get from a brand new word meaning one thing to a MIddle English word that means something entirely different, according to the definition of "woth" in the Wiktionary? It seems like a step is missing, or we have two different words. If anyone knows sometng about this relationship, or lack of, I would like to know! Thanks. Peacedance (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I think the confusion here arises from the fact that the page woot contains two entries: one for a modern English exclamation and one for a Middle English verb form meaning "know". As far as I know, these two words are completely unrelated, even though they're spelled the same and are therefore defined on the same page. I hope that clarifies the situation. —Mr. Granger (talkcontribs) 14:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

müde - extra section on superlative[edit]

Hello All, I am not certain how to edit a page. On the müde page there are two superlative sections and I believe only one is needed. Just thought someone might want to fix that minor detail. Tony 00:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

The two superlative tables don't look the same though. They have different forms. —CodeCat 01:03, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
They are labelled the same though. Why are there two, and can the headings be distinguished in some way? Are they different dialects? Different standards? Keith the Koala (talk) 21:09, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
There are a lot of forms in the German language where a short -e can be elided. Müdeste and müdste are the same. The form müdeste is much more common, but müdste is allowed. On the German Wiktionary, see de:Flexion:müde. —Stephen (Talk) 04:25, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


Is German from the 15th till 17th century considered "German" (= Modern High German), or is Early Modern High German separated from "German", or is it (partly) Middle High German?
Background: Joseph Kehrein's Grammatik der deutschen Sprache des funfzehnten bis siebenzehnten Jahrhunderts. Erster Theil: Laut- und Flexionslehre (Leipzig, 1854; google book: /books?id=bhMJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA151) mentions several "unusual" declinations, and so did [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justus_Georg_Schottel] in his famous grammar book. Of course, grammar books aren't citations, but most likely some of those old declinations are attestable. For example these are Schottel's plural of Bürger and Haus: Nom. die Bürgere, Gen. derer Bürgerer, Dat. denen Bürgeren, Acc. die Bürgere, Voc. O ihr Bürgere, Abl. von denen Bürgeren; Nom. die Häuser, Gen. derer Häuser, Dat. denen Häuseren, Acc. die Häuser, Voc. o ihr Häuser, Abl. von denen Häuseren. Kehrein also mentions an Albertus who should be [de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentius_Albertus] (his grammar book is in Latin though ([google book: /books?id=M-dfbTaavrMC )). -eXplodit (talk) 20:40, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

The answer should be yes, at least now and at least in case of German from the 16th century and later. -eXplodit (talk) 15:39, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I tried to attest Dotz (cf. the attestable words Dötzchen, I-Dotz, I-Dötzchen), which should literally mean point or dot, related with English dot, but might figuratively mean (little) child. I couldn't attest this meaning, but found something else. A few search results:

  • [zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=Dotz&k=Bibliothek] (see also [zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q="Dots"&k=Bibliothek] & [zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q="Dot"&k=Bibliothek]): There is one result where "Dotz" means "Tods" (genitive of Tod = the dead); "gestorben des schantlichen Dotz", "es ist nichtz Unsicherers dan die Stund des Dotz"
  • [books.google.de/books?id=4FtKAAAAcAAJ] - google OCR has: "und in Gottes Lob zu lernen ist des Holtzmeyers des Dotz frölich zu warten einem yeden Menschen Nütz und gut"
  • [books.google.de/books?id=o-YUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA411&dq="Dotz"]: "Geprediget von dem hochgel. D. J. K., darin geschicklich red in Gottes lob zu lernen ist, des Holzmeiers des Dotz frölich zu warten."

So Dotz (also Dots) should be an (attestable) genitive of the old word Dot meaning Tod.
But: I've never seen a grammar book (not even old ones) which uses a genitive -z - though there's also nichtz, so it's a more general thing...

  • Was z instead of nowadays s somewhat regional (like used in Low-German regions, cf. Dutch dood which is also spelled with d), non-standard, rare?
  • Was z just used sometimes out of typographical reasons, like when not having a ligature of t and s (*ʦ), one used a ligature of t and z (ꜩ)?

-eXplodit (talk) 15:39, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Turkish fire[edit]

Just tried to edit a page, but since I was unfamiliar with the format of the page, I decided to make a request to have it added on the article's "Discussion Page." I was informed that it might not be read (because the page might not be monitored) and instructed to visit the "Tea room" or the "Information desk." It looked as if this was the best place for my comment, so I've pasted below what initially made me want to edit the page:

The page is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:fire

My comment is (somewhat edited here): I discovered that "fire" means something entirely different in Turkish than it does in English, I wanted to get that information added to this page. [It means shrinkage (as in retail loss) in Turkish.] I attempted to edit the page for it and add it, but I'm just not familiar with how this page is set up or how to add an entry for Turkish. If it helps legitimize this request to have it added, I have two sources for my information -- WordReference (http://www.wordreference.com/tren/fire) and Tureng (http://tureng.com/search/shrinkage).

Added. —Stephen (Talk) 04:58, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Adding <a name="main-usage"></a> to the page prosaic[edit]

I would like to be able to link directly to the third alternative usage on the page for "prosaic".

The following HTML code would achieve this:

<a name="main-usage"></a> —This unsigned comment was added by (talk).

  • I believe that you are supposed to use the {{anchor}} template for that sort of thing. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:05, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

How do I go about adding the template {{main-usage}} to the page "prosaic"?

July 2015


From what little I can dig up, this is a palm tree with very large leaves used as thatching and as umbrellas, and having sap used for a sort of palm wine. This sounds to me very much like w:Borassus aethiopica, but I can't find any mention of its botanical identity. Searching for this on Google Books is rather frustrating: the vast majority of passages onlne refer only to the fact that Mungo Park once used it as an umbrella.

Can anyone provide a botanical name, or at least a synonym I can look up? Chuck Entz (talk) 14:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Synonym: rhun. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Looks like it’s the Borassus aethiopum indeed. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:58, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

EU legislation meaning of "p.m."[edit]

See [6] and click document two. Now search for "p.m.". What do they refer to? --Ysangkok (talk) 20:05, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Templates for references[edit]

Where can I find templates used for referencing information e. g. from Etymology sections? It seems that template:cite-book is not suitable, because it requires fulfilling the parameter "passage". There is also template:reference-book, but the documentation says that the template should not be used in "References". Thank you. Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

The "passage" parameter actually should not be required. I have just fixed this. --WikiTiki89 13:35, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:39, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I am afraid that there are many more problems with citation templates. For example I failed to find anything like cite journal. I found only template:cite with a parameter type=magazine, but it seems it is only for quotations but not for referencing information in the Etymology section (besides that it does not offer all necessary parametres: there is only year, but not date, there are not parameters volume, number, pages...). The same applies also to template:cite-magazine. Besides that there are many citation templates which lack documentation, such as the above mentioned cite-magazine or template:cite paper. Trying to understand the templates here is extremely timeconsuming for me, although I have some experience from English Wikipedia. It must be totally discouraging for all newbies :-(

May I ask for help once more? Could you suggest me, which template is most suitable for referencing information from an article published in a journal? Thank you very much. Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:04, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I recommend just writing out a citation manually. That's what I do when I run into problems. Our citation templates are horrible. --WikiTiki89 17:08, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes, will do it that way, thanks. Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:18, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

New Word[edit]

Please create a page for "sporographic." Thanks —This unsigned comment was added by Bjnorthern (talkcontribs).

It seems to be very rare; it gets only 5 hits at google books:sporographic. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Category:English terms by language of origin ?[edit]

Is there a category that has English words categorized based on what language they derive from? If not, would it be easy enough to create such a thing, being that the etymology sections contain templates (although it might be complicated by the lists of cognates)? JodianWarrior (talk) 02:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

We have a pretty elaborate system of templates and modules to provide derivational categories from just about any language to just about any language. To start with, try Category:English terms derived from other languages. From there you can drill down through the category structure. For specific languages, the categories are always in the form "Category:" + language name + " terms derived from " + language name, as in Category:English terms derived from Sumerian. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:40, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, that's more or less what I was looking for. I realized shortly after posting here that there were already numerous categories of "English terms derived from...", so putting them together wouldn't be much work if it hadn't already been done.
It would be nice to be able to see how many different entries were under a category, with the entries in all subcategories included in the total (that way one could compare the number of terms derived from Indo-European languages with those derived from Sino-Tibetan without having to go through all the subcategories). It's largely for curiosity's sake, however; I'm just voicing my desires without expecting any changes.... JodianWarrior (talk) 13:39, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
How silly of me...I forgot about the little arrows that expand the categories. Some addition is still required, but it's easier than I was thinking it was. JodianWarrior (talk) 13:51, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

New Username[edit]

I'm not sure where I really should be asking this, so I'm doing it here... Could my username be changed globally (across all Wiki projects, that is)? I used it when I made a few edits on Wikipedia back in 2011, but it is no longer relevant to me. JodianWarrior (talk) 02:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

m:Changing username. Keφr 06:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. JodianWarrior (talk) 15:01, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Wiktionary's place on Google search results pages[edit]

Why is it that Wikipedia is pretty much the first thing that comes up for many Google searches, but Wiktionary often doesn't even show up at all on the first page? Do other dictionaries pay to show up first? Dictionary.com seems to be at the top most of the time, with Merriam-Webster, The Free Dictionary, and Vocabulary.com not far behind. I suspect that is the biggest reason Wiktionary doesn't have more visitors and editors than it does. JodianWarrior (talk) 02:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@JodianWarrior I think it's more cause of the algorythm and the exotic "Wikt-" part which mean and refer absolutely to nothing. At least, i think it's the name of Wiktionary which may penalize us, if it would be Wikidictionary I'm quite sure the project would be more visible. When I look for "dictionnaire" (french word for dictionary) on google, the "Wiktionnaire" (= fr.wikt) appear in the second page of the result page and it wasn't the home page of the project but only the entry page for "dictionnaire" word. V!v£ l@ Rosière /Whisper…/ 17:53, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Your logic fails to explain Wikipedia's being first. With your logic it should be Wikiencyclopedia in order to get into the first page.
I think time will come when they will (manually?) give us more credits with the forms of high PageRank coefficients xD. --Dixtosa (talk) 19:41, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Still, it would probably help if our pagetitles were "x - Wiktionary, the free dictionary", instead of just "x - Wiktionary". Compare how Wikipedia is "X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". - -sche (discuss) 20:54, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Automatically Generate Adjective Forms?[edit]

I recently took to adding besynnerlig and all of its forms, and it occurred to me that there might already be an automatic process for generating all of the pages for the adjective forms for regular adjectives. Is there such a thing? Rekov (talk) 19:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Definition order[edit]

What method is generally accepted for ordering definitions? Are they just added on a first-come-first-serve basis?

I see very strange orders sometimes, take rhombus for example:

  1. (zoology, now rare) Any of several flatfishes once considered part of the genus Rhombus. [from 16th c.]
  2. (geometry) A parallelogram having all sides of equal length. [from 16th c.]

I would think the second definition listed there would be listed first.

So is there a guideline somewhere? Bruto (talk) 08:56, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

No, there's not. Some people prefer to list senses in chronological order of first attestation, others like to list them in order of commonness in current usage, but most of us realize that researching what either of those orders is will turn out to be way more work than we're willing to do and so we tend to add new senses to the bottom, in the "first-come-first serve basis" you mention. 10:36, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[edit]

Not sure if this is the right place. IP editor (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/ is consistently adding fake etymologies that cannot be corroborated by any of the relevant etymology sources for Serbo-Croatian (HJP, Skok). 19:41, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Surprising word - "deadname"[edit]

So I came across this term: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deadname#English

noun: "The birth name of a person who has since changed their name." verb: "To refer to someone who has changed their name by their previous name." ("to deadname", "deadnaming")

There's zero hits for this word on all of dictionary.com, JSTOR, Google Books or Google Scholar. There's a single Urban Dictionary entry less than a year old. There's a couple of links to online articles, all less than a year old.

What are the requirements for inclusion? Does this fill the 'attestation' requirement? Word asker (talk) 10:45, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

  • The term deadname has associated citations (see its Citation page). SemperBlotto (talk) 10:49, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
    And there are other citations (of the gender sense which Wordasker asks about) in the entry itself — to my surprise, since I had looked for citations just a month earlier and only been able to find the "kill by naming" citations I put on the citations page. Nice work finding the gender citations, Visviva! - -sche (discuss) 18:34, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

How to refer properly on en.wikt ?[edit]

Hi, I just created non-résistance and filled it but I'm really stuck for one thing : to refer properly the etymology like the fr.wikt article (you know that little [1] in exposant, how to do that here ? Which template or meanings to use ?). Thanks by advance. V!v£ l@ Rosière /Whisper…/ 17:43, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

You can use <ref> tags, just like on Wikipedia. We don't have a special {{R}} template. --WikiTiki89 17:48, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Ok thanks, I'll try to find an example over there. V!v£ l@ Rosière /Whisper…/ 21:16, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

google ngram[edit]

How reliable is google ngram ([books.google.com/ngrams/])?
A google book search often has incorrect OCRs - especially regarding fraktur scripts, umlauts and the distinction of s/ſ/ß (e.g. ſs might become "ss" at google, while its actually used for "ß"). -eXplodit (talk) 00:09, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, if we look at a string like "das beſte", it's misread as "das befte" only about 1/1500th of the time (version with no smoothing). And if we look at an ngram of "dass" vs "daß", we see what we'd expect — daß has been more common during the times it's been standard, dass has been more common during the times it's been standard. - -sche (discuss) 18:59, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
beste is another kind of example. beſte might be misread as befte, but daſs (= daß) might be misread as dafs and might also be misread as dass. My impression is that in ca. 1871-1902 (cf. Template:U:de:dass) Latin script became more common, in which daſs was used, which than was misread as dass (or even dafs) by google instead of the correct form daß (or daſs). And there might be a simple reason why ß became more popular after 1902 again even though Latin script wasn't banished: ß (instead of ſs) became more widely available and more popular in Latin script. In a rule book after 1902 (Berlin, 1908) it is: "In lateinischer Schrift steht [...] ß (besser als ſs) für ß [...]" (it uses fraktur and Latin script, so the two versions of ß look different).
(There might also be reasons why Latin script became more common in the time after 1871: Latin got widely replaced by national languages and Germany became more European (-> nationalism, imperialism, WWI; also cf. Hitlerists' arguments for banishing fraktur).)
-eXplodit (talk) 22:28, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

(German) Participial Adjectives[edit]

At "Requested entries" there was: "bestellter - inflection of bestellen?".

So, how are (German) participles called here resp. how should (German) participles be called here? How about simply calling them "Participle" (that is resp. in some cases was a part of speech)?
PS: Category:German participle forms and Category:German participles do exist, but are almost empty. Should these categories be used for unterdrückter & bestellter and bestellt & unterdrückt?
-eXplodit (talk) 20:11 & 20:18, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I've been making a habit of labelling participles with the POS header "Participle" to underscore the fact that they're not simply verb forms but have adjectival properties as well. —CodeCat 20:20, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I'd support that for the given reason, and as it makes things easier (no discussions whether a word like unterdrückt is an adjective or a verb form). Is there something like {{de-form-adj|s|m|n|bestellt}} for participles, like {{de-form-ptc|s|m|n|bestellt}}? -eXplodit (talk) 21:00, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Why not use {{de-form-adj}}? —CodeCat 21:12, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Amount of hypernyms and hyponyms in compared to german wiktionary and a practice to get them.[edit]

Hey everyone, I'm a computer science student from Düsseldorf, Germany and actually write my bachelor thesis. In this I compare different dictionaries and semantic nets to each other. My main focus is on the relationship of hyper- and hyponyms and in which way they are connected. I parsed the german and also the english wiktionary and recognize that the english version has a significant less number of hypernym and hypnym connections. Now I question myself why it is like that and if I maybe have missed out a important practice to read them out. I hope you can give some information about this. --Mo0812 (talk) 16:15, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe this is relevant or helpful:
  • In German compounds are usually new words (like: Kind + (Geburt + Tag) = Kindergeburtstag), while in English many compounds are spelled like "birthday party" or "child's birthday" which then should often be what's here called "SoP" (sum of parts).
  • de.wt is German and thus it's easier for them to add German compounds. en.wt is English and thus it's not unlikely that here are less German words.
    (Well, actually it's easier to add words here, as one doesn't have to add quotes or references, at least not if they are not requested (see requests for verification).)
  • Maybe German terms like "Unterbegriff[e]" and "Oberbegriff[e]" are easier to understand for normal people than terms like "Hyperonym[e]" or "hyper[o]nym[s]". So maybe that's why more terms are added in de.wt.
    Or maybe in de.wt more terms are added as they use (more/better) templatised pages where one doesn't have to add a hyperonym section, but just hyperonyms.
-eXplodit (talk) 19:22, 29 July 2015 (UTC)