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Welcome to the Information desk of Wiktionary, a place where newcomers can ask questions about words and about Wiktionary, ask for help, or post miscellaneous ideas that don’t fit in any of the other rooms.

To start a new topic, clicking on the “+” tab, or click here: Start a new topic.

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For past questions, see /Archives.


May 2015

Basic linguistics[edit]

Hi. I want to learn more about the science of linguistics, like about morphology/phonetics/IPA/etc. This is not taught in my high school. Is there a way I can learn about basic linguistics science with basic wordings? As in like middle school classroom typed language? I like things I can understand easily. Thanks. NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 04:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Also it has to be something online and free. NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 04:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
There's a textbook for linguistics at Wikibooks, so it's online and free, but I don't know how good it is or how easy it would be for a middle-schooler to understand. Linguistics isn't usually taught before the undergraduate university level, so that is usually the target audience for textbooks. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 10:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

zur#Spanish[edit]

globe, focusing on the Spanish writing Mar del Zur.

I was quite excited to come across this globe in our shop. The writing, not that you can see all of it, is in Spanish and Latin. However the Spanish is archaic, it features the writing mar del zur and not pictured, mar del nort. This is obviously not contemporary Spanish. Can anyone work out when the spelling zur was used? It would give me an insight into how old the piece is. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Google Books Ngrams isn't looking promising. Deliberate misspellings? Not Spanish? Renard Migrant (talk) 15:43, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
If you look at w:Abraham Ortelius, you'll see a map from 1589 that uses that spelling. Ortelius was Flemish, but was in the service of the king of Spain. You'll probably get better results by looking at the place names to see if there are any historical clues from what different places are called. Of course, there's always the possibility that this a modern copy of an older globe, with decorative details like dragons thrown in for artistic effect. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:09, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Where's "our shop"? I'm coming to buy that globe. Equinox 02:52, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I found a hit from 1748. --Type56op9 (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Navarro-Aragonese[edit]

Are there any good resources on the Navarro-Aragonese language? I’d like to add some words. --Romanophile (talk) 09:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

The first place I'd look is in the books cited in the footnote section of Navarro-Aragonese. It doesn't actually have an ISO code; do we want to create one for it, or shall we consider it an archaic variety of Aragonese (code an) and tag it with a context label like {{label|an|Navarro-Aragonese}}? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Defining the name of the language would be the first thing to do. SemperBlotto (talk) 08:05, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
[1], [2] (watch out for normalisations). — Ungoliant (falai) 15:58, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Do we also have a term for the ancestor of Asturian? What is it? --Romanophile (talk) 10:57, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Old Leonese (roa-ole). — Ungoliant (falai) 15:32, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Problem creating new entry[edit]

I intended to create a new entry for "ZOPA" (= Zone of Possible Agreement), but when I follow the instructions at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page, I simply get taken to the existing "zopa". So how do I create "ZOPA"? 86.186.14.111 02:45, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Click this link [3] Equinox 02:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I see that someone else has now already created the entry. I think it would be useful to update the instructions at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page to include the information about how to create an entry when a case variant already exists. I would be happy to do this myself, except I am unable to edit the help page. 86.183.128.199 17:19, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The easy way is to create a redlink on an existing page and then click that. For example, if you type ZORI in the search box, it just takes you to the page zori (which is a relatively new feature; when the help page was written that didn't happen), but if you make the link ZORI on a page and then click it, you can start a new page. (You don't even have to save the page with the redlink on it; just click "Show preview" and then click the redlink.) —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The IP is right, auto-redirects are quite irritating when you want to create an entry and the title already exists with variants caps or diacritics. For genevre yesterday it took me to génèvre so I had to type directly into the URL https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/genevre to stop it taking me to génèvre. I've been here since 2007 and it's taking me a while to get my head around it! Renard Migrant (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The easiest way is to go to the existing entry and add an {{also}} template at the top. That generates a red link for the one you want to add. Don't forget to do the same in reverse. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

vandal[edit]

Is there a synonym for this word that’s less offensive to ancient Germanians? --Romanophile (talk) 08:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

List of wiktionary user promotons[edit]

Could someone give me the link of wiktionary user promotions list? It is a list of user jobs I guess like admins and stewarts. I cannot seem to find the page

Interwiki problem with proverbs[edit]

The names of pages with proverbs start with minuscule letters and do not end with full stops, even when the proverbs are sentences (barking dogs seldom bite). Czech Wiktionary has a different attitude: all the proverbs that are sentences there start with capital letters and end with periods (cs:Pes, který štěká, nekouše.). Is there any way how to connect the English Wiktionary page pes, který štěká, nekouše with the Czech Wiktionary page of the same proverb? They are the same proverbs, the same wording, the same spelling, everything is the same, only the attitude to naming proverb pages is different. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 20:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Probably the best way would be to make a redirect from Pes, který štěká, nekouše. to pes, který štěká, nekouše here at en-wikt as well as a redirect in the opposite direction at cs-wikt. That way the bots will connect one language's entry to the other language's redirect and vice versa, and both pages can be found. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 11:43, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

The best way is actually to correct bots to not assume that interwikis will be always in the very same form.
Danny B. (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I Agree. However until this is done I think we have to accept Angr's suggestion. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 12:12, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

There are two problems.

  1. When is bot running in -wiktionary mode, it ignores all pages, which have not identical names, even if they are redirects. Without this mode it will follow all redirects (there are in some small languages redirects from english words to local language).
  2. When is bot running with manual conrol, there exists some abuse filter in en.wikt which prevents to save differenrt form (example). JAn Dudík (talk) 13:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I think there are not many cases like that, so it could be done manually. Unfortunately, it is impossible too. If you do it, you get abuse filter warning first, and if you continue, your edit is promptly reverted anyway, no matter that the edit was explained in the summary in detail. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 18:26, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

newbie spellin query[edit]

how do i find a word in the wiktionary if i do not know what the proper spelling is?

newbie spellin query ariola[edit]

how do i find a word in the wiktionary if i do not know what the proper spelling is? ariola

The search mechanism will try to suggest similar words, but it's not perfect. Perhaps aureola? Equinox 22:43, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Almost certainly areola. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:33, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

secret underworld auction[edit]

On the TV show New Tricks I heard a UK (criminal jargon?) name for a secret underworld auction, presumably for stolen art and other similar items, that was something like nablus. Does anyone know a good spelling for this? DCDuring TALK 00:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

getting started with adding kanji definitions[edit]

As I'm fairly new to any serious editing/entering of information that require sources, I would like information on how to properly edit entries. Would anyone be so kind as to get me started or direct me to relevant information?

Specifically, as I'm studying Japanese Kanji, I occasionally run into words that haven't got a definition yet and before contributing I would need to know which sources are considered valid, what issues I should avoid with regards to "non-latin" characters, proper romanization.

I am familiar with basic editing and format coding, apart from correctly adding sources, so 'Help:How to edit a page' unfortunately isn't providing me with anything useful or new.

Thanks in advance, OmikronWeapon (talk) 10:21, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Generally speaking, you don’t need sources when you enter definitions. You might ask @Atitarev if he has any suggestions or needs as far as entering definitions for Japanese Kanji. You may be thinking of Wikipedia, where everything has to be sourced. Here we usually don’t need sources (as long as you’re not copying a lot of copyrighted text word for word). —Stephen (Talk) 08:21, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Use of the term "CC-BY-SA"[edit]

The Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license is not abbreviated to "CC-BY-SA"; Creative Commons' official abbreviation is "CC BY-SA", per their website and others. I'd like to get consensus to deprecate the term "CC-BY-SA" and replace it in all visible places with "CC BY-SA". Thanks, --L235 (talk) enwiki 21:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

There are... quite a lot of these, and unfortunately neither the search engine nor Google can distinguish between hyphens and spaces, so I don't know how many. Given that the form with the hyphen is pretty common anyway, is it worth the work? ObsequiousNewt (εἴρηκα|πεποίηκα) 17:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
@ObsequiousNewt: Well, there doesn't need to be a systemic race to find them and get rid of them; just a passive "if I notice it I'll change it over". Does that sound fine? --L235 (talk) enwiki 18:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC) Looks like first ping didn't work; repinging: @ObsequiousNewt: --L235 (talk) enwiki 18:13, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I think he means that they cannot distinguish hyphens and spaces on the internet, so we can’t get an idea about which spelling is more common. "CC-BY-SA" is certainly used in printed books, and that makes it a valid spelling as far as we are concerned. See here for some examples in printed works. If there are three or more, that’s enough for it to be included here. —Stephen (Talk) 03:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
@Stephen G. Brown: (Sorry for late reply) I mean, can we change it to the non-hyphenated version within Wiktionary policies and project pages only. Thanks, --L235 (talk) enwiki 21:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

June 2015

adjective[edit]

If an adjective is neither comparative nor superlative, what is it? --Romanophile (talk) 11:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

positive. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 19:09, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

felting[edit]

felting (a noun)is a word used in the U.K. by the building trade for something to do with roofing, perhaps about tin at the edge of the roofing tiles. Because I couldn't remember exactly i turned to Wiktionary but couldn't find any path. Rameshkkhanna (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

WYF[edit]

It has been noted that the term WTF has been added to the Webster's Unabridged dictionary.

Here in Flagstaff Arizona we have bumper stickers with WTF in large letters, and in small letters it says Welcome to Flaagstaff

How do I submit my sandbox[edit]

Submitted this to Wikipedia, twice, second review came back that, "it probably belongs in Wiktionary." Bobmodikiw (talk) 01:38, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Can you show it to us? —CodeCat 17:22, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I beleive its properly formatted, entered a new Wiktionary word, food broker Bobmodikiw (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Faux Amis[edit]

Is the a specific rubric/heading to use in a word entry to list a faux amis -- a warning or advisory that the entry does not mean the same as a specified word that it superficially resembles? Thanks --67.244.30.139 07:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I think that should become clear from the definition that's in the entry. If one term resembles "chair" but means "table" then the entry will say "table" which makes it obvious. —CodeCat 17:24, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
  • i just want to translate english to french language --07:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Same thing. There is no specific heading to mark faux amis. See prétendre. —Stephen (Talk) 12:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:color panel[edit]

Requesting the contents be modified to not involve tables (there is absolutely no need to use HTML tables for something so basic). See Template_talk:color_panelsuzukaze (tc) 22:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

We are in the midst of considering forbidding HTML tables.
I assume you would keep the template-default logic in the replacement. DCDuring TALK 23:42, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The word reprise[edit]

What is the correct pronunciation? re- PRIZE or re- preeze ?

See reprise, which says /ɹɪˈpɹiːz/ . This means that it is "re- preeze". Not "re- PRAIZ". NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 02:57, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

eiginnafn[edit]

Look at the IPA pronunciation... "/ˈeiːjɪnˌnapn/". I was making Wikitoslav articles when I realized that the sounds "pn"... How can two sounds go together without an ə in between it? Like /ˈeiːjɪnˌnapən/ ? Can someone please explain this to me? NativeCat drop by and say Hi! 02:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Nasals are sonorants, so they can serve as syllables without a vowel. I'm sure there are lots of people who say happen so that it would rhyme with this (I tend to pronounce it like "hapm" or "ha'm"). It's true that syllabic consonants should, strictly speaking, have a diacritic under them, but that's strictly speaking. Also, there are all kinds of what you would consider strange consonant clusters in all kinds of languages: "gd", "dn", and "gb" are just a few. The last one is mostly restricted to Africa, but the first two are European. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Also, not all languages follow the same rules of syllable structure as English does. Just because English doesn't allow syllables like /napn/, that doesn't mean Icelandic doesn't. In Icelandic, /napn/ might really be a single syllable, in which case there shouldn't be a syllabic diacritic under the /n/. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:43, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Full الفِعْل المَجْهُول Conjugation[edit]

Is there any reason the full Conjugation of أَتَى in الفِعْل المَجْهُول not done?

I do not find any entry named الفِعْل المَجْهُول. I don’t know what you are talking about. —Stephen (Talk) 10:45, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Lowercase {{wikipedia}} pages[edit]

Either letting it automatically get the page name or manually entering it lowercase, the Wikipedia template will always link to the uppercase page on the wiki. In the Lojban language capital letters aren't used, so that creates a problem. For example, on the zdotu'a page it will always link to the Lojban Wikipedia page [4] as opposed to the [5] as it should. How exactly could I get a lowercase link to a Wikipedia page?

Brantmeierz (talk) 15:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not case sensitive for the first character in the page title, so this shouldn't be a problem. —CodeCat 15:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
He is linking to the Lojban Wikipedia, not the English one. It is case-sensitive. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

List of wiktionary user promotions[edit]

Could someone give me the link of wiktionary user promotions list? It is a list of user jobs I guess like admins and stewarts. I cannot seem to find the page —This unsigned comment was added by 96.226.225.164 (talk).

Here is a list of user rights:
  • bot
  • administrator
  • bureaucrat
  • steward
  • account creator
  • importer
  • transwiki importer
  • oversight
  • check user
  • confirmed user
  • IP block exempt
  • autopatroller
  • Flood flag
  • patroller
  • rollbacker
Note that most of these are almost never used in Wiktionary. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:35, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
See WT:Admin, I think the important ones are covered there. —Stephen (Talk) 07:50, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Clarification on woot (1990s) as related/not to woth (Middle English)?[edit]

This definition of the word woot implies that it is a modern word, a corruption or alternative of "w00t", an internet/texting expression. However, the definition then goes on to relate "woth" and "witen" apparently as different forms of the word from Middle English. How do we get from a brand new word meaning one thing to a MIddle English word that means something entirely different, according to the definition of "woth" in the Wiktionary? It seems like a step is missing, or we have two different words. If anyone knows sometng about this relationship, or lack of, I would like to know! Thanks. Peacedance (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I think the confusion here arises from the fact that the page woot contains two entries: one for a modern English exclamation and one for a Middle English verb form meaning "know". As far as I know, these two words are completely unrelated, even though they're spelled the same and are therefore defined on the same page. I hope that clarifies the situation. —Mr. Granger (talkcontribs) 14:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

müde - extra section on superlative[edit]

Hello All, I am not certain how to edit a page. On the müde page there are two superlative sections and I believe only one is needed. Just thought someone might want to fix that minor detail. Tony 108.23.167.66 00:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

The two superlative tables don't look the same though. They have different forms. —CodeCat 01:03, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

German[edit]

Is German from the 15th till 17th century considered "German" (= Modern High German), or is Early Modern High German separated from "German", or is it (partly) Middle High German?
Background: Joseph Kehrein's Grammatik der deutschen Sprache des funfzehnten bis siebenzehnten Jahrhunderts. Erster Theil: Laut- und Flexionslehre (Leipzig, 1854; google book: /books?id=bhMJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA151) mentions several "unusual" declinations, and so did [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justus_Georg_Schottel] in his famous grammar book. Of course, grammar books aren't citations, but most likely some of those old declinations are attestable. For example these are Schottel's plural of Bürger and Haus: Nom. die Bürgere, Gen. derer Bürgerer, Dat. denen Bürgeren, Acc. die Bürgere, Voc. O ihr Bürgere, Abl. von denen Bürgeren; Nom. die Häuser, Gen. derer Häuser, Dat. denen Häuseren, Acc. die Häuser, Voc. o ihr Häuser, Abl. von denen Häuseren. Kehrein also mentions an Albertus who should be [de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurentius_Albertus] (his grammar book is in Latin though ([google book: /books?id=M-dfbTaavrMC )). -eXplodit (talk) 20:40, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Just tried to edit a page, but since I was unfamiliar with the format of the page, I decided to make a request to have it added on the article's "Discussion Page." I was informed that it might not be read (because the page might not be monitored) and instructed to visit the "Tea room" or the "Information desk." It looked as if this was the best place for my comment, so I've pasted below what initially made me want to edit the page:

The page is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:fire

My comment is (somewhat edited here): I discovered that "fire" means something entirely different in Turkish than it does in English, I wanted to get that information added to this page. [It means shrinkage (as in retail loss) in Turkish.] I attempted to edit the page for it and add it, but I'm just not familiar with how this page is set up or how to add an entry for Turkish. If it helps legitimize this request to have it added, I have two sources for my information -- WordReference (http://www.wordreference.com/tren/fire) and Tureng (http://tureng.com/search/shrinkage).

Adding <a name="main-usage"></a> to the page [prosaic][edit]

I would like to be able to link directly to the third alternative usage on the page for "prosaic".

The following HTML code would achieve this:

<a name="main-usage"></a> —This unsigned comment was added by 202.124.123.170 (talk).

  • I believe that you are supposed to use the {{anchor}} template for that sort of thing. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:05, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

July 2015