User talk:Scio~enwiktionary/Tolkienian Latin Lexicon

Hobbit

One possibility is just to Latinize the name: Hobbit, Hobbitis. Although the rules of Vicipaedia don't really apply to fiction, we try not to translate names if they don't already have a translation. For example, in English, we don't call Peter "Rock" even though Peter (Petrus) means rock. IMHO, it depends on whether you consider the final work a translation of the original, or a "newly discovered!" original work, of which the familiar English version is a mere translation.

Apparently the official Latin word is Hobbitus, and the rules of Vicipaedia (what has been published is canon) would demand that we use that also.

Other good resource: Iustinus's Translator's Guide --Robert.Baruch (talk) 16:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

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I understand why we don't usually translate names; however, this is a book with a lot of thought put into the names, with very specific etymologies for each, much of the time coming from fictional languages. Hobbit is apparently from Old English, but I would like this book to feel Roman, not Anglican; And so I would like to make the names more Roman as well. Also, Hobbitus Ille, according to certain reviews by (it seems) speakers of latin, is not written in "true" latin. You should read the reviews on Amazon. I would not view it as an "official" source, even though it is the official latin Hobbit. | Scio (talk) 17:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

LOL, "Linglish"! OK, it's a crappy translation. I was a bit puzzled why Ille was after Hobbitus when it is usually before the noun. Now I know why. In that case, I think we should leave it as Hobbit(-is). --50.76.40.134 17:44, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Westmarch

As above, we can either translate (Occiditer, Occiditineris) or not (Vestmarchia, Vestmarchiae). --Robert.Baruch (talk) 16:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Tolkien does want us to translate Westmarch, where march means borderland. So we can do Western Borderland (Limes Occidentalis). Probably shouldn't be combined. --Robert.Baruch (talk) 03:57, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

And actually, I found that at least in modern Latin, marchia is attested to mean borderland. So we have Marchia Occidentalis. --Robert.Baruch (talk) 04:13, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

And other names, in general

See the words of Tolkien himself on this subject. Basically, don't translate the names. We can Latinize them, though. I'd be interested in getting hold of Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings, since it apparently has a section which is a list of names not to be translated at all. --Robert.Baruch (talk) 03:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I disagree with that, though. Then it's just a Germanic story rewritten in Latin. If anything, this ought to be something more, a story that transcends culture written into being a Roman story. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 17:23, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I would agree with Metaknowledge, but part of that quote seems very convincing: "even if he could in a few months create a new coherent structure which it took me years to work out". --WikiTiki89 17:43, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I am translating this to learn, though; not to make a Roman story. Perhaps this could be more like a Roman-era translation of a German epic? | Scio (talk) 14:54, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

You include a foreword or appendix that explains the Germanic etymologies for your Roman readers. --WikiTiki89 14:59, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

That would be a good idea. | Scio (talk) 15:27, 25 November 2013 (UTC)