Wiktionary talk:Bashkir transliteration

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Why isn't щ just šč like Slavic languages, since it's usually a Slavic borrowing anyway? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure why it's the way it is. I found some bits and pieces on the web but I don't know what standards there are. Bashkir's desire to write in Roman letters is less obvious. It's Rick's baby. Perhaps, you should ask him. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 08:00, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
He doesn't know me & would never answer me. If you think he respects you (with your wide knowledge of the fascinating languages from the Old World, he probably does), then you should give it a try. Or we could just change it, enforcing that would be ridiculously easy for me. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
We're friends but he must be upset with Wiktionary and lost his interest. Perhaps we could change it but then there would be a lot of work to make sure the entries/translations match the translit page. I still can't find any standards on Bashkir transliteration but in my opinion, this should be closer to similar Kazakh or Kyrgyz pages. There are other Turkic languages without TR pages, e.g. Chuvash. I really don't know about Tatar as I found too many cases when "ь" was simply ignored in the Roman spelling and Cyrillic "а" was either "a" or "ä". --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 03:34, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
You can still try. But isn't щ a relatively rare letter in Bashkir? If so, I could find-and-replace it manually with a modicum of effort. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Done. Note that "ж" is "c" as in Tatar and Kazakh, I mean Kyrgyz--Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:35, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, Kyrgyz will be a lot of work, but Bashkir hopefully not so much. I made a small change, it's OK, right? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:54, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, OK, I guess but not OK if you write in all caps like ЩЕРБАКОВ (Russian surname) -ŞçERBAKOV :). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
And how often does it come up that someone on en.wikt uses Russian surnames in all-caps when talking about Bashkir, Monsieur ТИТАРЁВ? :) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Transliterating е in Bashkir[edit]

Am I correct that е is usually transliterated as e, and only as ye when it's at the beginning of a word? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:27, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, also after vowels, "ъ" and "ь". --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 04:41, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
OK, I will ask Ignatus for help then. Thanks! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:48, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Same thing about е at WT:KK TR, right? The page isn't clear, and I don't want to make a mistake. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:58, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, the same thing. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:07, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Bloody, Kyrgyz too, right? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Kyrgyz and Tajik (if you wanna do it). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm working through every language I can handle. A lot of these languages have substandard template support, so once I create templates I need someone to use AWB to add them to all the pages. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:34, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Please add Belarusian, Ukrainian, Macedonian and Bulgarian to your to-do list. They are straightforward. There are sound changes but they don't affect the transliteration. More phonetical than Russian. Ask me if you have questions. I just noticed in WT:UK TR that symbol ’ is transliterated as ʺ . I think it should be just ’ (same symbol). Also, perhaps "ьо" should be "jo" (Bulgarian as well). --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:44, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I can't do Ukrainian, Belarusian, or Bulgarian because I'm not sure how to get the vowel stress right. If you ask Ignatus to do one of them, I can copy it over and make all the necessary changes for the others.
Macedonian should be transliterated like Serbo-Croatian, right? WT:MK TR doesn't exist, so we should create that first. Note that Serbo-Croatian should never be transliterated, so I'm not going to make a module for it.
Oh, finally, for the purposes of e vs ye, does у count as a vowel in Kazakh? I ask because it's transliterated as "w". —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I'll think about the Macedonian table, yes, stress is important but you can add it later. Actually, Cyrillic "о́" is "о" + ́ symbol, Roman "ó" is build the same way! Stressless is also fine, if the stress is not manually provided. Yes, "у" is a vowel in Kazakh, even if it's romanised as "w", so Cyrillic "уе" in Kazakh should be "wye". --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:06, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Not really, ó is an individual character according to Unicode... I'll take a look. Also, for Tajik, do you know what's up with и (for example) being transliterated as "yi"? I've never seen that before, does that happen under the same rules as "e"/"ye"? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:16, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Try pasting "o" (or any vowel), followed by ́, you get ó.
Tajik - yes, "и" and "ӣ". They try to match Persian closer. Tajik "и" often matches Persian /(j)e/. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
WT:MK TR exists (how did I forget?). Just added a shortcut. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 00:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Not sure how to do that for Tajik, guess I'll ask Ignatus. MK TR looks good, but it also requires stress to be marked. I'll do that later, then. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:19, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Tajik should be easy, just copy the code for "е" twice (for "и" and "ӣ"), replace "e/je" with "i/yi" and "ī/yī" accordingly. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I haven't tried that, but I don't see how it could work, defining the same variable three times would make the first two definitions disappear, right? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:31, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
You're right, check with Ignatus. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 01:35, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

RFC discussion: December 2014[edit]

See Wiktionary talk:Kazakh transliteration#RFC discussion: December 2014.