Talk:như thiết như tha, như trác như ma
Latest comment: 13 years ago by Atitarev in topic RFC discussion: January–February 2011
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Completely illegible definition. -- Prince Kassad 21:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
- I think that's a literal translation of the proverb into English - which as you say, means nothing. Perhaps a Chinese speaker could enlighten us. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
- Or a Vietnamese speaker. Or, for that matter, a Japanese speaker: we have the exact same definition for 切磋琢磨. —RuakhTALK 21:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
- Google finds "Sessa-takuma [...] consists of four Chinese characters: 切磋琢磨 The first means to cut (a bone or elephant tusk), the second to rub, the third to crush (a stone or gem), the fourth to polish. As a whole, it describes how various hard materials grind each others and during this process are all refined. Interestingly, using online translation services yealds a variety of results. Babelfish has two different versions. The rather simple Japanese-English translation is "Hardwork". When I tried the Chinese-English option, I got "Learn from each other by an exchange of views" as a result. Google translation has "Friendly competition". Websaru has "gradual improvement by slow polishing (idiom); fig. education as a gradual process" for the Chinese term, "apply yourself diligently with everyone" for the Japanese." - -sche 22:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
- I don’t think it’s anything like "friendly competition". It seems to say something like: (studying is) like forging and casting, grinding and filing. —Stephen (Talk) 04:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- 切 磋 琢 磨 are processes in the manufacture of bones, horns, jades and stones. 切磋 and 琢磨 both mean "to refine, to improve", especially "to improve through discussions with others". 如切如磋如琢如磨 means "Something is like the refining processes of the ornaments. The more you discuss and exchange your ideas with others, the more you improve."
- The current etymology "From Middle Chinese .." doesn't make sense. Middle Chinese is spoken. It should be "From Classical Chinese" instead. Wjcd 04:38, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- "Classical Chinese" could be confusing because the term can also refer to the Chinese used from Zhou to Han. Maybe "literary Chinese," but the implication of "Middle Chinese" is that it came into Vietnamese during the time Middle Chinese was spoken. So there should be a very easy way to fix the entry (and others like it), just making clear when it came from Chinese to Vietnamese. 71.66.97.228 06:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
- In Mandarin 切磋琢磨 (qiēcuōzhuómó) - "learn from each other by exchanging views", from ABC dictionary (integrated into Wenlin software). --Anatoli 12:49, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
- The Japanese Edict dictionary gives: 切磋琢磨 (せっさたくま, Sessatakuma) "cultivate one's character by studying hard"; diligent application". In Japanese described: 互いに鍛え合い高め合う. --Anatoli 12:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
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And generally, all of Ehonobe (talk • contribs)’s contributions. H. (talk) 15:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Luckily, he seems to have stopped contributing, I’ll just assume this will solve itself in due time. H. (talk) 15:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)