User talk:Victar

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Entries needing correction

Will you be continuing to correct the Median, Old Persian, Saka and Scythian entries that I had created now that you are back? Antiquistik (talk) 23:06, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Regarding the etymology of ἀκινάκης (akinákēs), do you think there is any viable Old Iranic period reconstruction? Something like *akayinakaʰ or *akayīnakaʰ? Antiquistik (talk) 01:07, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Would you like me to email you the studies on the Scyhian language I mentioned in the beer parlour that I could not link there? Because, given that we both tend to edit entries in Old Iranian languages on Wiktionary, I feel like the best way to avoid more going in circles would be to share with you the linguistic research due to which I had been disagreeing with you on how to deal with the Scythian languages. This way we can resolve our misunderstandings before having to run in circles again. Antiquistik (talk) 09:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Ossetian

Hi. Can I ask you to give approximate reconstructions for Old Ossetic and Proto-Scythian forms of Ossetian саг (sag), please? Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 19:48, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

❤ Gnosandes ❀ (talk) 20:47, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Don't remove RFV templates

It doesn't matter if you think it's been attested: we still need to go through the process of having a discussion. If you look at what I wrote on both entries, the issue is whether the terms are attested in Proto-Brythonic or Latin. Theknightwho (talk) 19:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

The entry already passed a previous RFV with the same argument, but sure @Theknightwho. --{{victar|talk}} 19:52, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

No it didn't - you merely removed the RFV template on the same incorrect grounds. Theknightwho (talk) 20:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Artognou passed both an RFV and RFC, neither of which were resolved by me. See Talk:Artognou. --{{victar|talk}} 20:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Neither of those discussions show any kind of consensus; they just petered out. Feel free to address the reason behind the nomination, by the way. Theknightwho (talk) 20:39, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

*Hwi-(H)was-want

@Victar Recently you requested my entry Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Iranian/Hwi-(H)was-want for deletion. You wrote the explanation that it is a "Zoroastrian borrowing", then quickly deleted it. What do you mean by that? Can you also define a source for your statement? *Diwodh₃rós (talk) 11:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I deleted my RFV and instead cleaned it up. My comment regarding religious terminology borrowings was chiefly referring to this. The nominalisation of PII *HwiHwáswāns just means "the shining one", which can be extended to a deity, the sun, dawn, etc. --{{victar|talk}} 00:48, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for explanation. *Diwodh₃rós 05:05, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ossetian

Hi. Can I ask you once again to make a reconstruction for the Ossetian гӕн (gæn), please? ɶLerman (talk) 20:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

LMFAO. Someome gets lifted every day. Sure. --{{victar|talk}} 05:58, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

@ɶLerman: Reconstruction:Old Ossetic/gænæ. --{{victar|talk}} 08:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks very much <3 ɶLerman (talk) 11:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Where and why and whom does someone lifted? :o ɶLerman (talk) 11:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Your question re: IPs

The geolocation is wrong and neither are proxies. Besides which, most of the second IP's edits don't even mention Persian even when they could have shoehorned in Irman-style bad Persian etymologies. Right or wrong, I don't think they're Irman. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Thanks for checking. --{{victar|talk}} 20:42, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

unþasaggjungu

*unþasaggjan is not a class II weak verb, so the suffix on *unþasaggjungu should be *-ingu. Looking at the Descendants, it's OHG that shifted the original -ingu to -ungu (> Old High German intsagunga). Leasnam (talk) 18:25, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

@Leasnam: no objection from me. --{{victar|talk}} 03:06, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Page has been moved to *unþasaggingu. Leasnam (talk) 03:10, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

*froggo

Why is it *prewgʰ- but not *prowgʰ-ō ~ *prugʰ-nos? Leasnam (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@Leasnam: Because I was reconstructing that step in pre-PG per Kroonen, not a PIE. --{{victar|talk}} 04:42, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

*īsajikilljā

Your revert here [[1]] is wrong. The OE & GML are masculine; the Middle Dutch is masculine or neuter. None are feminine. Leasnam (talk) 05:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to bed. I'll get up with you again tomorrow :) Leasnam (talk) 05:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Cool, but you deleted the content without moving it, as expressed in my edit comment, "create the entry first, then move". -- Sokkjō 05:35, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Gotcha. It's been created, so I'll remove it again. Leasnam (talk) 16:03, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

{{d}}

Please fix incoming links before nominating entries for speedy deletion. Creating more work for the deleter keeps the category from being emptied. I appreciate that you left rationales at e.g. Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Iranian/Hay- and Reconstruction:Proto-Nuristani/eká, but they're not really actionable; it's not like replacing links to a simple typo. Ultimateria (talk) 03:10, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

@Ultimateria: My mistake for not checking those. Done. Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 03:27, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, but I was also referring to Category:Terms derived from the Proto-Indo-Iranian root *Hay- and its subpages. Also, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at the links to the remaining reconstruction entries in CAT:D. Ultimateria (talk) 05:26, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

@Ultimateria: I see the confusion. It's because we use roots for the categories without creating the entries in PII and PIIr. --{{victar|talk}} 06:19, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Pashto

What is your basis for reverting my Pashto edits? They were all wrongly reverted. Both شیر and روشن are obvious Persian loanwords in Pashto (identical to their Persian form), with روڼ being the inherited form in Pashto. So I removed them as they were listed as inherited forms. It is fine to list those words, but they should be specified as being Persian loanwords in Pashto rather than as inherited forms. And the transliteration of ښ in Pashto is <ṣ>, but <ṣ̌> and <x̌> are also seen as acceptable. It represents the /ʂ/ sound. Gharandune (talk) 16:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

@Gharandune, if they're borrowings from Persian, you need to mark them as such, not simply delete them. We mark borrowings using {{desc}} template with the |bor=1 parameter. As for transliterations, please use our guide at WT:PS TR. --{{victar|talk}} 17:13, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Missing entries from IAIL

Do you know of any version of the Indo-Aryan Inherited Lexicon where the entry for "ks·ay [1]" is not missing? The only one I have at my disposition does not have this entry, and instead has "ks·ay [2]" immediately following "ks·av." Antiquistik (talk) 17:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

@Antiquistik: No, I do not. That book is a work-in-progress and has many holes and oversights. --{{victar|talk}} 18:37, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I have emailed the author of the Indo-Aryan Inherited Lexicon. He replied that he has incorporated it into his upcoming database which will become available next year, the Indo-Iranian Etymological Dictionary. Antiquistik (talk) 13:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Template:R:non:Köbler

If you insist on removing the umlaut, the correct form is Koebler, not Kobler. There are several of Köbler's dictionaries implemented as templates here, all of which use Köbler. Helrasincke (talk) 09:41, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

It would also be a courtesy to update the documentation to reflect the changes. Helrasincke (talk) 09:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

@Helrasincke: Stripping combing characters is the standard method for sanitizing template names. Unless you're familiar with each language's orthography, you're not going to know that German /ö/ = /oe/ or Lithuanian /ę/ = /en/. -- Sokkjō 20:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I take your point that it may not be self-evident, but really the same argument could be made for templates based on transliterations from other scripts (especially those scripts where the translit systems themselves are somewhat arbitrary or have competing norms, say for cyrillic). I'm all for accessibility, but I don't find the logic here compelling, especially since we have on-screen input buttons for non-English characters. I would have preferred it were at least left as a redirect like all the others, since if you don't know what an umlaut is or how to input or even respell one you probably also have little business or interest in providing citations for Germanic sources. And can I ask how exactly deleting the documentation page instead of moving it to the new location helps this presumed aim to improve accessibility? Helrasincke (talk) 17:07, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Nobody's going to go to CAT:Old Norse reference templates and wonder, "where is Template:R:non:Koebler, I only see Template:R:non:Kobler?" There's no point to a redirect.

I did not delete Template:R:non:Kobler/documentation, that was User:Equinox. Equinox, thanks for deleting the redirects for me, but could you restore the aforementioned page? -- Sokkjō 20:06, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, my bad. I couldn't see whether someone requested the delete and just assumed it was connected. Helrasincke (talk) 21:13, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

*Hárwāns vs *Harwánts?

Given the morphologies of Avestan 𐬀𐬎𐬭𐬎𐬎𐬀𐬧𐬙 (a^uruuaṇt), Sanskrit अर्वत् (arvat), Old Persian *Arvantapātaʰ and Old Persian-derived Ancient Greek Ἀρυάνδης (Aruándēs), and Middle Persian [script needed] (⁠arwand⁠ /⁠'lwnd⁠/), could Proto-Indo-Iranian *Harwánts and similar descendant forms for Proto-Indo-Aryan and Proto-Iranian be preferable reconstructions than Proto-Indo-Iranian *Hárwāns, Proto-Indo-Aryan *Hárwāns, and Proto-Iranian *Hárwāns? Antiquistik (talk) 13:00, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

No. See Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-Iranian/támHaswāns. --{{victar|talk}} 16:47, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

How would you reconstruct the Old Persian form of Ancient Greek Ἀρυάνδης (Aruándēs) in this case? Antiquistik (talk) 08:23, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Done. Again, if there are multiple theories, they should all be listed. --{{victar|talk}} 22:23, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Reconstruction:Proto-West Germanic/korōnā for Old Saxon

Hello. I noticed for this reconstruction: Reconstruction:Proto-West Germanic/korōnā, the Old Saxon form is listed as "kappa", I assume this is a typo? Thanks so much. ElkandAcquerne (talk) 18:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Fixed. --{{victar|talk}} 03:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

*maȷ́ʰištʰas

Is there any reason why some Old Persian terms end with -ʰ while the other reconstruction entries you have edited recently now end with -h instead of -ʰ? Additionally, the Old Median term *masištah⁠ is attested, per Tavernier, so is there any reason why you have removed it? Antiquistik (talk) 13:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Ngl, it's a bit frustrating you don't read edit comments, especially when you're pinged in them. See diff. As for the Median, don't create reconstructions without descendants. --{{victar|talk}} 16:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I had read the ping, but I had initially misunderstood it. For the Median, does this mean there should be Middle Median and later descendants for there to be reconstructions? Antiquistik (talk) 18:41, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Essentially, <ʰ> and <ⁿ> are only used in transcription of attested OP terms to denote that they are in the word, but are not being expressed in the cuneiform. There should never be any reconstructions, either as an entry or in a descendants list, without noting attested descendants, derivatives, or borrowings. --{{victar|talk}} 23:55, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

póyh₂-w-eh₂

Hi Victar, how do you mean this is a post-PIE resolving r/n-stem? That isn't at all straighforward to me. For one thing it's not post-PIE. —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 10:52, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

If you have a look at other r/n-stems, in late-PIE and its descendants they were nearly all rebuilt to new stems, so *póyh₂w-eh₂ is practically expected. Not the case with u-stems, even neuter u-stems, which if rebuilt, just become masculine u-stems. --{{victar|talk}} 11:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Can you be more specific? What happened to the r/n? Is there a model for this kind of process? Maybe you're right, but at the moment it seems quite random. —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 18:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Because r/n-stems fell out of productivity and usually when that happens, they get rebuilt. Not random at all. --{{victar|talk}} 04:41, 23 December 2023 (UTC)