Appendix talk:Pahari Swadesh lists

Pahari Languages

I would like to suggest some changes to the existing structure of the list.

1. Nepali-Doteli-Kumaoni-Garhwali
2. Dogri-Kangri-Kahluri-Mandeali-Kulluvi
3. Mahasui-Sirmauri-Jaunsari-(Outer Saraji)-(Oras Boli(Indo Aryan Kinnauri))
4. Chambeali-Gaddi-Pangwali-Churahi-Bhaderwahi-Paddari

The chains created here tend to be more similar to each other. I haven't got or am not in any process to procure material for the language in () as of yet.

Forgot to sign. Nik9hil (talk) 09:21, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nik9hil: Ah I didn't get a notification for this. I'll add slots for those languages then, and thanks for expanding the table. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 16:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Also, how did you happen to get Dogri resources? I haven't been able to find much. My grandfather speaks it (along with Punjabi, Hindi, and English all quite well) so I have been meaning to learn a bit. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 16:22, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Doubt

While saving some words, I seem to be getting this error. I couldn't figure out any mistake in the format I typed. Maybe you know more about it. Lua error in Module:Swadesh/data/xnr at line 45: attempt to call global 'term' (a nil value)

error line: m[176] = {{term = "काळा"}, {term = "काळखड़ा"}, {term = "स्याही", notes = "inky black"}, {term = "स्याह", notes = "inky black"}} Nik9hil (talk) 11:48, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, I just observed that the Devanagari words I am entering are not getting converted into iso format. Why so? Nik9hil (talk) 12:16, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

I also have doubt on how to create wiktionary pages for new languages (like Kahluri or Mandeali). Is there any boiler template? Nik9hil (talk) 14:40, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

The kangri error has gone. But the words remain in Devanagari. Also, will the conversion work if I provide words in Takri? Can you add Kullui to the table (I tried adding it, but it showed some error); I have got around 80 words in that language. (ping AryamanA Nik9hil (talk) 15:07, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

@Nik9hil: So for transliteration, I have simply employed MOD:hi-translit which has the same rules for schwa deletion as it occurs in Hindi. Do Pahari languages have delete schwas from orthography in speech? It should be a fairly good approximation regardless.

Takri has no code for transliteration thus far. I can write a module in a few days.

The guidelines from new entry formats are at WT:ELE. You can probably learn from looking at entries, however, rather than reading the whole guidelines all at once. E.g. see the entry I made for Mandeali पाञ्ज (pāñj).

Also, it's good to list sources in entries; since Pahari languages are so little attested, one source is enough by our standards at WT:CFI. You can see how a very very complete entry, with sources, would look like at Hindi होना (honā). —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 23:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

(ping AryamanA) Kindly add Gaddi to this list (I have come across a person who is willing to contribute for that). Thanks for the help. Also, its upto you if you want to create Takri transliteration (I don't want to burden you). Yes, schwa deletion is present in all. As for the sources, it is primarily me or the people I am contacting for words (books are not easy to get). Maybe, we can put PLSI Himachal Pradesh/ Jammu & Kashmir/ Uttarakhand for source, as that book has many words, but not all. I am in the process to procure the vocabulary book for HP's Pahari languages. Lets see; when that arrives, I will put that also as a source after cross-checking. Also, there are some false friends present between Pahari languages & Hindi, for which the Hindi page already exists. What is done in such case? Nik9hil (talk) 07:25, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

(ping1 AryamanA) Kindly add Gaddi to this list (I have come across a person who is willing to contribute for that; maybe tell me how you add language in table, I tried but some error came).Nik9hil (talk) 10:10, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

@Nik9hil: You did the right thing, but you also need to make the page at MOD:Swadesh/data/kfx, for example, for it to work. Added Gaddi. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 21:51, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

As for false friends, see e.g. कुण (kuṇ) or पानी (pānī) which have lots of languages on one page. I suggest turning on Tabbed Languages gadget for a better viewing experience on those pages. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 22:16, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

@Nik9hil: Would having Hindi and/or Punjabi to compare to be useful? The Swadesh lists for those are complete. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 03:40, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes we can do that. Most of the ethnic Pahadis have now migrated to Delhi-Ncr, Punjab, UP, etc. have now adopted Hindi/Punjabi. Hence it will be very helpful for them. Binsarhills (talk) 04:35, 24 September 2020 (UTC).

@AryamanA:I would agree with what @Binsarhills: said. A comparison with any Indo-Aryan language should be good. Also, having a comparison of Rajasthani(Marwari and all) with HP's Pahari & Gujarati with Garhwali should be interesting as these languages have words in common. I also wanted to ask another favour from you. A person seems to be interested in documenting words for Kinnauri, Lahauli+ languages, etc. I have seen on the platform that endangered languages like Raji-Raute are also documented. It should be a good addition for Wiktionary. Keep in mind, these languages are Tibetic. Some of these languages have started writing in Tibetan script while rest still write in Devanagari as of now. Can you tell me how do you create an appendix swadesh list?

I also got an extremely useful resource for Sirmauri, Jaunsari, Bangani, Jaunpuri & Garhwali(Nagpuriya variety). click here. This pdf has around 210 words, with a lot of them in common with the current swadesh list. Nik9hil (talk) 21:02, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Lua Error Debugging

Hi, I added some Garhwali words and saved the article. But after saving it I am getting some "lua error". Can anyone help me with that? Binsarhills (talk) 12:20, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Sure, tell us what error were you getting or maybe simply share the words.Nik9hil (talk) 13:46, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Most of the time, the error is due to extra/less brackets or inconsistent quote marks or commas. So maybe check that first.Nik9hil (talk) 13:59, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

I guess I know the errors you were talking about. You forgot to change the index numbers. Don't worry, I have done that. Thanks for contributing. Nik9hil (talk) 16:18, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Table

The table is getting quite wide, so I'm thinking of making a Swadesh list viewer in JavaScript to host elsewhere, that can draw on the Wiktionary data as a backend. Does that sound like a good idea? —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 19:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Yes, that sounds perfect! Also kindly look into the current error here, I couldn't figure it out. Nik9hil (talk) 13:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Language with no ISO Code

AryamanA Bangani doesn't seem to have a separate ISO code, although it is pretty clear that it is separate from Garhwali. Is there any way to include it separately?