Category talk:French French

Delete?

And why delete? There are alot of words/phrases that are not used outside of France itself. Is this Gallic centricism at work?

Deletion debate

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I replaced a template:delete with template:rfd.

There are a lot of words/phrases that are not used outside of France itself. Is this Gallic-centrism at work? It seems rather odd that there's no category for regional French of France itself, since it has regional French, and alot of it, since French entertainment even says things about the provincialness of speech of those outside of Paris. So why was this even marked for deletion in the first place?

76.66.193.69 10:21, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

FYI: there's also Category:European French – I suppose that means the French of France, Belgium, and Switzerland. —Michael Z. 2009-04-04 15:02 z

I think most words are strongly shared between the three countries (also Monaco and Liechtenstein). The only words that are really restricted to France, most likely are those that are either dialectal within it (for which {{regional}} or {{temp|dialectal}} should do) or restricted by political/geographical structures ("statalisms" as one of my teachers called those. They are still used outside the country to refer to these structures: you can't call a "w:municipalité régionale de comté" any other way in French!). Circeus 17:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Note that dialectal is used by paper dictionaries when the regionalism is too complex to delineate in the proscribed space, e.g., when it belongs to three or more dialects. Since WT:NOT#Paper, better for us to enter {{France|description}} than just “dialectal”.

What happens to metropole when the category is deleted? —Michael Z. 2009-04-16 17:47 z

Well, I dunno about métropole, but I'm sure metropole will do just fine. After all, it's not a French word to begin with! Circeus 22:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Firstly I think that Category:French of France is a better title because it's not ambiguous. Also fr:Catégorie:Français de France does exist, I can already think of quatre-vingt and soixante-dix which AFAIK are only used in France, replaced by huitante/octante and septante according to the country. If nothing else, few regional categories might be ok (do we have stuff like Category:Texan English? Apparently not so maybe that's where my input should end. Mglovesfun 22:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

quatre-vingt and soixante-dix are NOT "only used in France". The other terms are NOT universal (though they may be in the majority depending on area) in Belgium and Switzerland, and they are not used at all in North America as far as I know (except septante a bit in Acadian French, I believe). Due to the major cultural attraction of France, very few words are really unique to it, as opposed to its regions: they rapidly spread to the neighboring countries. The usage related to meals is the only one that comes to mind, personally. Circeus 20:21, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

The French taught in anglophone Canadian schools, at least outside of Quebec, has always been standard Parisian French. I suppose that French regionalisms may have been frowned upon or considered inappropriate for formal writing in different periods and places. Perhaps more so than in English, since “proper” French is set by an academy in France? —Michael Z. 2009-05-19 20:41 z

Don't even get me started on that issue. It's a mess. Circeus 00:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Is “standard French” a suitable name for the French of France? —Michael Z. 2009-05-20 01:18 z

No I hate that, would you say that British English is standard English? It does come across as a value judgment I think, and even if it doesn't the name isn't accurate at all. Circeus your point is a good one, but I could say the same about US English. With all the American films (sorry, movies) and TV shows in Britain, almost any American words sounds OK in UK English. So I'd hate to see the category deleted. Reformed yes, sure, but deleted hell no (another Americanism). Mglovesfun 01:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

But Category:British English has several subcategories for non-standard British English, like Cockney. And France has non-standard non-Parisien french, which is not spoken outside of France, and Parisien slang which is not spoken outside of Paris. 76.66.196.139 07:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Keep. There are many French-language words that are not spoken outside France. --Rising Sun 10:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Kept. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

RFD

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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For the sake of clarity, this should be Category:French of France. --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 15:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

• Note: We also have Category:Regional French. Perhaps the contents of the above should be moved there. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Oppose, the subcategories of Category:Regional French all use the adjective then the word French, not 'French of X'. I think there's also a Category:English English. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

So there is, and other Adjective Englishes. Oppose per Mg.​—msh210℠ (talk) 08:46, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention Category:Spanish Spanish -- Liliana • 16:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Kept.​—msh210℠ (talk) 17:29, 29 January 2013 (UTC)