Module talk:form of/lang-data/en/functions

-e

@Benwing2: Will -e plurals be added? Category:English irregular plurals ending in "-e" is currently empty. J3133 (talk) 08:22, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@J3133 Thanks for all your comments. Many of them concern cases where the plural technically fits the category name, but the singular isn't what the category description says it should be. Should we change the category names somehow to match the description? E.g. Category:English irregular plurals ending in "-a" with singular in "-um" or "-on"? Or is this too verbose? Benwing2 (talk) 18:29, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm also thinking the categories should be named more like Category:English irregular plurals in -e, without the word "ending" and without the quotes; compare Category:English terms suffixed with -en, where the category handler ensures that -en is italicized in the title when the category page is visited. If we include the expected singular ending, maybe the name should be Category:English plurals in -e with singular in -a, without the word "irregular", since all plurals of this nature are irregular. Benwing2 (talk) 19:37, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2: I agree with including the singular ending and removing “ending”, “irregular”, and the quotation marks. J3133 (talk) 03:14, 12 July 2023 (UTC) (changed 03:57, 12 July 2023 (UTC))

@J3133 These should all be cleaned up; let me know if there are any more issues. Benwing2 (talk) 22:24, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Bug with "#Noun"

{{plural of|en|study#Noun}} (plural of study) at studies causes it to be categorized as an irregular plural. J3133 (talk) 09:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Others with this issue are founds, rapids, tears, and tires. J3133 (talk) 09:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 19:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

"-a" plurals categorized as "-ina"

fascina (fascinum), koina (koinon), and mediastina (mediastinum) should be categorized with -a instead of -ina. J3133 (talk) 09:25, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

rationalia categorized as "-a" plural

rationalia (plural of rationale) should not be categorized with -a because it is not formed by changing -um or -on. J3133 (talk) 09:28, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Another that does not belong is koulouria (plural of koulouri). J3133 (talk) 09:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Similarly, pirogi (plural of pirog) does not belong in the -i category. J3133 (talk) 09:48, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

ossa plural of os is another one. I thought of this but ended up deciding these should go in CAT:English irregular plurals ending in "-a" because technically the category name doesn't indicate the expected singular; but see my other comment above. Benwing2 (talk) 19:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Plurals defined at the plural entry

literati, as a plural of literatus, should be in the -i category, but it is defined at at the plural. How should this be solved? J3133 (talk) 09:51, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@J3133 We have two choices. Either we add a template that takes the singular and whose sole purpose is to categorize irregular plurals, or we change {{en-plural noun}} so it auto-categorizes if |sg= is given. Probably the latter is better, but we need to clean up various places that don't use {{en-plural noun}} in this fashion; e.g. literati puts the singulars manually after the template, and tortellini uses {{head|en|noun}}. Note that I ran into a somewhat similar issue with umlaut plurals, which are too irregular to work out automatically (e.g. mice plural of mouse changes both vowel and consonant, and ky and kine as plurals of cow are even worse). My solution for this issue is {{en-umlaut plural of}}. Benwing2 (talk) 19:30, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2: I have added Category:English plurals in -alia with singular in -e to marginalia and Category:English plurals in -i to pelmeni and vareniki manually. All use |sg=; will you implement the auto-categorization? J3133 (talk) 10:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

category for -ores

@J3133 this category doesn't work currently because plurals formed by adding -es are considered regular, and are filtered out before the irregular plural entries are checked. Do we want this category or should we just get rid of it? Benwing2 (talk) 22:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2: Although they are formed by adding -es, I think they should not be considered regular. J3133 (talk) 08:06, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@J3133 OK, my concern is that there are probably various other similar cases, plus lots of archaic words where -es is used when we would now use -s. Benwing2 (talk) 08:49, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@J3133 E.g. Achaemenides pl. of Achaemenid, Abipones pl. of Abipón (Spanish origin), aegipanes pl. of aegipan, agones pl. of agon, ancones pl. of ancon, arytænoides pl. of arytænoid, beames pl. of beam (archaic), beastes pl. of beast (archaic), bolivares pl. of bolivar (Spanish origin), cañones pl. of cañon (Spanish origin), colores pl. of color (archaic), conquistadores pl. of conquistador (Spanish origin), etc. Benwing2 (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

-ai

@Benwing2: I have added Category:English plurals in -ai with singular in -a or -e (33 entries). These are other plurals ending in -ai:

• adding -ai: hypaspistai, Iamidai
• -as to -ai: cepelinai, Hellanodikai, litai, psoai
• -is to -ai: protopsaltai
• -es to -ai: agonothetai, bouleutai, erastai, myroblytai, Toxotai/toxotai
• -os to -ai: hydriskai

J3133 (talk) 08:53, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

|nocat=1 on irregular plurals

The accelerated plural-creator seems to have used to add “|nocat=1”, which prevents the irregular-plural category from being added. I have removed it from agapai, chytrai, and spithamai. There are most likely other entries where it needs to be removed. J3133 (talk) 08:53, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@J3133 I am running a check now for these; it seems it will take about 40,000 seconds = 11.1 hours to go through all forms in Category:English noun forms. Benwing2 (talk) 09:07, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@Benwing2: This is the edit in which I removed it, with the edit summary “Apparently |nocat=1 does not do anything any more”. The discussions are at Wiktionary:Grease pit/2021/June § Looking up templates and their attributes and Template talk:plural of § nocat parameter. It was said that the feature it was used for was removed, and that “it does nothing now”. J3133 (talk) 09:08, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

-y

ky and passersby should not be in Category:English plurals in -y. But I think the solution should not exclude cases where the last vowel is removed (chervonets – chervontsy; lishenets – lishentsy; khokhol – khokhly; strelets – streltsy; etc.) J3133 (talk) 16:43, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@J3133 OK, that should be fixable. Benwing2 (talk) 17:57, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

-sful

bakeriesful, belliesful, bodiesful, galleriesful, librariesful, pantriesful, and skiesful should be included in this category. J3133 (talk) 16:51, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Capitalization

@Benwing2: E.g., Exclusive Brethren, like brethren, should be in Category:English plurals with umlaut, and Angry Young Men, Ceprano Men, Fifth Monarchy Men, Flores Men, Green Men, Marlboro Men, Martling Men, Mondeo Men, New Men, Overmountain Men, and Pac-Men in Category:English plurals in -men with singular in -man. J3133 (talk) 12:22, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

-d to -des

@Benwing2: I have tried to add -d to -des plurals as irregular (to Category:English miscellaneous irregular plurals) but regular plurals are included. J3133 (talk) 14:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)