Talk:բոզ

Funny things

"Prostitutes were introduced into Armenia from Caucasus together with the word for them." -Lol. That is very patriotic of you, Vahagn, similarly to those Armenian "scholars" that spout such nonsensical pan-Armenian ludicrosities. -Simboyd (talk) 07:36, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I am merely pointing out the scholarly consensus, nothing personal. Besides, there is nothing shameful in prostitution. I like prostitutes. Georgians should be proud of introducing them into Armenia. Especially because the cultural innovation usually flowed in the other direction: you learned winemaking, khachapuri-making, Christianity, alphabet, singing and football from us. --Vahag (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

While being uncertain before, now I realize I chose the correct title for this section :) -Simboyd (talk) 13:57, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

As much as you try to Indo-Europeanize this term, Armenian word for penis - կլիր - is most probably borrowed from Georgian ყლე. Nice to know Armenians were dickless, before Georgians introduced it into Armenia (and maybe even into Armenians, god forbid). Life, that's the source of all innovations, don't you think? See, where your logic leads? :) --ReordCræft (talk) 08:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Very funny. --Vahag (talk) 12:13, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Etymology

Could we be overlooking an Armenian borrowing into Georgian? When was this attested in Old Armenian, if you can find the earliest attestation. I couldn't find anything in Old Georgian texts from GNC, but my SimpleLemma function isn't working, so that makes it 10 times harder to find actual roots and derivations. I, personally, first time saw "Bozi" being used in Vefkhistyaosani. Even then it means 'pretty' I think (I guess metaphorically since y'know all georgian prostitutes do be pretty kappa). But we do need info. -Solarkoid (talk) 21:02, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Oh and also @Vahagn Petrosyan, do you have any pdf/text files so I can compare Book of the Fox (Georgian vs Armenian)? Thank you in advance. -Solarkoid (talk) 21:13, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Solarkoid: բոզ (boz) is well attested since the beginning of the Armenian literature in the 5th century. The Book of the Fox has many editions. This one is OCRed but does not have բոզ (boz). I found it once in this edition, page 101, line 11։ ... բոզն և կախարդն... (... bozn ew kaxardn...).

Acharyan derives from Georgian because Laz has the basic meaning "girl", and "girl" > "whore" is very easy, whereas "whore" > "girl" is uncommon, if we do not count modern ho. --Vahag (talk) 15:24, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh no I get why Acharyan derives it from Georgian but we simply don't have any form of ბოზ- attested in old Georgian. Only one starts with Visramiani and Vefhxistyaosani and a translation of Book of the Fox in Georgian (which i think you should try to compare), all of which are Middle Georgian ones. I'm guessing it came from a piece of Armenian literature of a part of Georgia took in the word from Armenians and then it spread it middle georgian where we were more 'free'. Visramiani for example: "თუ შენისა გუარისაგან ათასი შვილი გამოვა, ყუელა ბოზი, გრძნეული და მატყუებლობასა უკანა-მდგომი იქმნების." and official english translation "If from thy family a thousand children come forth, may they all be whores, witches, and followers of deceit." so it already meant "whore" when it was first attested. We can assume it came into literature a little bit before that, since Visramiani is very... literary lol. But then there's Old Armenian, which has things attested back o'when, so we could safely conclude, that the uncommon "whore > girl" happened or it could be influenced by some other word as well. Idk what the -o component in the laz word is. -Solarkoid (talk) 16:01, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Solarkoid: for a possible native Kartvelian origin see here, page 267. --Vahag (talk) 15:54, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Hm ok but that doesn't mention Georgian does it. It does mention Laz bozo/bozu though. -Solarkoid (talk) 16:01, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Solarkoid: I have now used a more cautious language, since you say the philological evidence for Georgian points to it being an Armenian borrowing. I still think the Armenian is borrowed from Kartvelian, perhaps from a Zan language like other ancient borrowings from Kartvelian (e.g. ոչխար (očʻxar), ճանճ (čanč), երինջ (erinǰ)). Is Сообщения академии наук Грузинской ССР available online? I need year 1961, т. XXVI, № 1. --Vahag (talk) 09:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: I could get behind that. Zan (Laz) -> Armenian -> Georgian would still be possible, but maybe it's Zan -> Georgian. Armenian could well be intermediary, and that would also check out with the etymological dictionary link you gave me. oh and I'll search about those documents. -Solarkoid (talk) 10:33, 29 October 2020 (UTC)