Talk:漢服

neologism claim

Basically what I am claiming with the neologism thing is that 漢服 should not be findable before 2003ish, or something like that. I think we can say for sure that the frequency of the use of this word increased dramatically after that time, but by adding neologism, I am claiming that the term was created around that time. If a good example or two that isn't connected to Hanfu movement from 2003 can be found, like something 1980's or before, then my claim here would be disproven. Has to be used in a sentence or something like that. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:18, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Google Books has two pages of results from 1980-1999, but they are almost entirely all about government officials historically wearing 汉服, as opposed to the 服 of barbarians. 🤔 —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 03:13, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Fascinating-- now I'm wondering- are there any usages from before 1980? Were there any usages in any decades before that? (beside the Japanese book which says 所謂漢服) Why are we seeing a sudden increase in mentions in the 80s? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:53, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

One of the early books 臺灣土著民族的社會與文化 page 58 seems to be matching the character 漢 with lots of other characters, making words that sometimes are or are not words today 漢制 漢姓 (wiktionary didn't have this; going to create this entry now because of http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=Z00000082102) 漢化 漢語 漢俗 [1] --Geographyinitiative (talk) 05:33, 4 April 2019 (UTC) (modified)

The 新新聞周刊, Volumes 330-338 on Google Books from 1993 is using 漢服 in a personal name (黃漢服) 原來黃漢服以出售幼猴謀生,但日前縣府下了命令,要求他今年不可以再資猴子,{...}而黃漢服的繁殖獼猴也宜以中性態度看之 --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:19, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

宋史研究论丛, Volume 10 from 1990 seems to be using the character 漢 independently with different characters too, like 臺灣土著民族的社會與文化 seems to have been doing. Examples: 汉官 (part of an idiom http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=Z00000082083), 汉人 (wiktionary has an entry but http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw does not), 汉式 --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:28, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

中国衣冠服饰大辞典 1996 says 汉服 is 汉服 0 辽代服制中的汉族服饰。That's not what the definition we have on our page says and it sounds like a specialized academic term. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:03, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

中国古代改革故事选 1985 has this sentence: 改鲜卑姓氏为汉姓,推广汉俗、汉服、汉话,鼓励 鲜卑和汉族通婚。 Here again, we see people using the term in a string of 汉+X terms, some of which (汉俗 汉话) are not recognized as words in dict.revised.moe.edu.tw or on wiktionary.--Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:39, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

• @Geographyinitiative, Suzukaze-c I do not understand the claim that is being made here. I have not seen it reflected in the indigenous lexicography. Baidu Baike lists plenty of citations in premodern texts: 长沙马王堆出土的西汉简牍：“简四四‘美人四人，其二人楚服，二人汉服’"。《蛮书》：“裳人，本汉人也。部落在铁桥北，不知迁徙年月。初袭汉服，后稍参诸戎风俗，迄今但朝霞缠头，其余无异。”《新唐书》：“汉裳蛮，本汉人部种，在铁桥。惟以朝霞缠头，余尚同汉服。” etc. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:51, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't remember exactly what was happening here except that I think that Xiandai Hanyu Cidian does not have the word 漢服 and hence some people have said that “The term "Hanfu" was coined by Chinese Internet users to broadly describe ancient Han Chinese people's clothing worn before the Qing dynasty." [2] --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:55, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Neologism?

@Geographyinitiative, Suzukaze-c, Tooironic: What's the evidence for this being a neologism? Various premodern attestations (not just from China!) for "clothing characteristic of the Han Chinese". I think it should be brought back to this sense.--Tibidibi (talk) 15:17, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

See above. On further thought, I feel that there is a distinction to be made between rigid scholarly discussion of "clothes of the Han people" and the modern popular 復古 clothing style. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 23:42, 1 June 2021 (UTC)